crash diet and strength loss

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crash diet and strength loss

Postby vegieburger » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:12 am

I'm overweight and sick of it. I have tried eating less and doing more cardio but all that seemed to happen was that I stopped making strength gains and I didn't really lose any weight. A friend has suggested that I do this diet where you eat 700cals a day for 2 weeks. I know that 700cals is may below my bmr but supposedly it takes more than 2 weeks of eating like this before your body uses muscles for fuel (I don't know if this is true or not) Even it doesn't reduce my muscles I realise that it will have a negative effect on my strength so my question is about how long would it take to gain strength back after 2 weeks of the diet? As I want to start competing in powerlifting I don't want to mess my strength up but if I can build my strength up reasonably quckly once I start eating more than I will give this diet a go.
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby JP » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:58 am

you sure you need to do anything that dramatic yet?

how about some high intensity interval stuff on top of your weights? Drop the cardio if it is just low impact steady state perhaps?

The amount of calories you spend during the excercise is just one part of the story - it is the amount of energy your body needs to recover from the training that can be much higher in terms of calorie expenditure than the actual training session. Which is why these short bursts of intense weight training or interval training are so effective.

How about you list your current training and eating habits and folk could recommend something less drastic than fasting (or near enough fasting lol!).
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby muchluv » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:33 pm

Perhaps this might be counterproductive, considering you would be going into starvation mode, which makes your body burn fat slower If I'm not mistaken?
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby thestoatyone » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:57 pm

700kcal a day is daft. I wouldn't just be worried about losing strength but bone density and some other very important shit. Take a good luck at what you're eating and just trim it slightly. Throw in some metcon at the end of your workout and find little ways to get a bit more and you're laughing.

If that's you in the avatar pic though I say stop being a daft bint. You ain't overweight by a country mile. Focus on getting strong; awesomeness will follow.
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby baldy » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:33 pm

Sounds pretty drastic and you will most likely lose strength during the 2 weeks. Even if it only takes 2 weeks to regain the strength (I have no idea if is will come back that quickly). Then you have lost a month, during which you could have made strength gains. Sounds very much like a no win situation.

I know when I have been sick for a couple of days, and not been able to eat properly it takes a good 2 weeks to get back to full strength. Thats only having 2-3 days of sickness with probably about that amount of calories.

Plus mentally 2 weeks would seriously mess up your eating patterns/routine.
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby xJimx » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:47 am

As others have said, what you're proposing sounds unnecessarily drastic and, potentially, damaging.

I've lost 20kg in the last few years just by being careful with portion control (especially where evening carbs are concerned) & cutting out 99% of the junk. I've done this with a bare minimum of cardio (which I hate with a passion) & have never 'dieted' to the extent I've felt hungry. I'm stronger now than I used to be & certainly look a hell of a lot better.
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby tal » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:59 am

[quote="vegieburger"]I'm overweight and sick of it. I have tried eating less and doing more cardio but all that seemed to happen was that I stopped making strength gains and I didn't really lose any weight. A friend has suggested that I do this diet where you eat 700cals a day for 2 weeks. I know that 700cals is may below my bmr but supposedly it takes more than 2 weeks of eating like this before your body uses muscles for fuel (I don't know if this is true or not) Even it doesn't reduce my muscles I realise that it will have a negative effect on my strength so my question is about how long would it take to gain strength back after 2 weeks of the diet? As I want to start competing in powerlifting I don't want to mess my strength up but if I can build my strength up reasonably quckly once I start eating more than I will give this diet a go.


Is there a particular reason why you want to do it in two weeks? This is going to limit what you can achieve.

If calories = 700 and your maintenance is probably 2000, but lets say, 1700. Then you will have a daily deficit of 1000, over two weeks that's 14000. Best case scenario you lose all fat, generally 1kg of fat is 3500, so that's 4kg of fat. Worst case scenario you also lose some muscle and less than 4kg fat. Most likely scenario is you will just piss out a bunch of water weight due to the lack of carbohydrates and what-not, then as soon as you go back to maintenance you'll put it back on again.

I think you should consider a different approach. Or at least review the timeframe.
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby vegieburger » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:45 am

[quote]
how about some high intensity interval stuff on top of your weights? Drop the cardio if it is just low impact steady state perhaps?


I've been doing high intensity stuff (curcuits of burpees, box jumps etc) its the only sort of cardio I can bear. I don't know if it was the cardio itself that was leaving me so worn out or just not having rest days.

[quote]Perhaps this might be counterproductive, considering you would be going into starvation mode, which makes your body burn fat slower If I'm not mistaken?


You are probably right and I thought the same thing, only burning fat, and no muscle, if you only do it for 2 weeks sounds to good to be true.

[quote="thestoatyone"]700kcal a day is daft. I wouldn't just be worried about losing strength but bone density and some other very important shit. Take a good luck at what you're eating and just trim it slightly. Throw in some metcon at the end of your workout and find little ways to get a bit more and you're laughing.


I know 700cals a day is unhealthy (even if I only do it for 2 weeks) I am just sick of feeling like I am getting no where with weight loss.

[quote="thestoatyone"]If that's you in the avatar pic though I say stop being a daft bint. You ain't overweight by a country mile. Focus on getting strong; awesomeness will follow.


Its me in the picture. Maybe I'm not as overweight as I thought, but then I am pear shaped so that photo is misleading. They have these posters all over the gym about healthy waist measurements and I am in the at risk range (80cm when measured at navel height) and in feb my dr told me I am overweight and suggested I take prescription appitite suppressents if I haven't lost any weight in 6 months and I am still the same weight (60 to 62kg) and same waist size now. I don't really want to take the appitite suppressents but they would be a last resort (I take medication that has been tested on animals if I have to but I don't want to support animal testing by taking something that I could avoid). It sounds stupid but I really don't know how overweight I am but my dr seems like the most objective person to ask.

[quote="baldy"]I know when I have been sick for a couple of days, and not been able to eat properly it takes a good 2 weeks to get back to full strength. Thats only having 2-3 days of sickness with probably about that amount of calories.

Plus mentally 2 weeks would seriously mess up your eating patterns/routine.


Thats my biggest worry, and why I'm hesitent to try this diet.

[quote="xJimx"]As others have said, what you're proposing sounds unnecessarily drastic and, potentially, damaging.

I've lost 20kg in the last few years just by being careful with portion control (especially where evening carbs are concerned) & cutting out 99% of the junk. I've done this with a bare minimum of cardio (which I hate with a passion) & have never 'dieted' to the extent I've felt hungry. I'm stronger now than I used to be & certainly look a hell of a lot better.

I think I will try harder with cutting out junk and control my portions for a month and see how that goes.

[quote="Talyn"]
Is there a particular reason why you want to do it in two weeks? This is going to limit what you can achieve.

If calories = 700 and your maintenance is probably 2000, but lets say, 1700. Then you will have a daily deficit of 1000, over two weeks that's 14000. Best case scenario you lose all fat, generally 1kg of fat is 3500, so that's 4kg of fat. Worst case scenario you also lose some muscle and less than 4kg fat. Most likely scenario is you will just piss out a bunch of water weight due to the lack of carbohydrates and what-not, then as soon as you go back to maintenance you'll put it back on again.

I think you should consider a different approach. Or at least review the timeframe.

I only want to do the two week diet to start my weight loss and after that try and either keep losing weight or at least maintain a better weight by eating less than I do now but I do worry that trying to stick to 700cals a day will be setting myself up for failure as it will be so hard to stick to.

I really enjoy weightlifting and don't want to stuff my strength up (I am having enough trouble making gains right now as it is without doing anything to make it even harder) so I think I will try to be better with what I eat for a month and see how that goes. Even 2 weeks of no squating or deadlifts is too long.
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby baldy » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:55 am

[quote="vegieburger"]in feb my dr told me I am overweight and suggested I take prescription appitite suppressents if I haven't lost any weight in 6 months and I am still the same weight (60 to 62kg) and same waist size now. I don't really want to take the appitite suppressents but they would be a last resort (I take medication that has been tested on animals if I have to but I don't want to support animal testing by taking something that I could avoid). It sounds stupid but I really don't know how overweight I am but my dr seems like the most objective person to ask.

First time I have ever heard of a Dr suggesting appitite suppressents, I always hear of Dr's telling people to stop taking them because they are so bad. Maybe this has changed.

Could you get your Dr to refer you to a Dietician, hopefully a vegan friendly one. They should be able to give you the best advice.

Dont worry about posters in the gym, on all those charts I am borderline obese.
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby muchluv » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:25 pm

Talyn, I am pretty sure it is 3500 calories for each pound of fat, not each kg. Just thought id mention it.

Vegieburger I would never consider you overweight from your picture, but I am sorry to hear you are having a tough time :(

How many calories do you consume each day at the moment, roughly, if you know?
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby tal » Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:16 pm

[quote="muchluv"]Talyn, I am pretty sure it is 3500 calories for each pound of fat, not each kg. Just thought id mention it.


You are right, of course. thanks.

VB: Fair enough, I just think you would be better with a more tapered approach. How much weight do you think you need to lose, btw?
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby vegieburger » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:47 am

[quote="baldy"]First time I have ever heard of a Dr suggesting appitite suppressents, I always hear of Dr's telling people to stop taking them because they are so bad. Maybe this has changed.


That doesn't surprise me, I honestly don't think he is the best dr plus he is an asshole but unless I went to a private clinic, which I can't afford to do, I have no choice but to see him. I'm not sure if I could afford to see a dietician either.

[quote="muchluv"]Talyn, I am pretty sure it is 3500 calories for each pound of fat, not each kg. Just thought id mention it.

Vegieburger I would never consider you overweight from your picture, but I am sorry to hear you are having a tough time :(

How many calories do you consume each day at the moment, roughly, if you know?


So to lose one pound I have to have a 3500cal deficit? Thats depressing.

That picture is 3 months old and in that time I have gained alot of weight. I'm also not sure how many cals I have perday. It didn't seem like that much but I must be underestermating the amount of cals in what I was eating.

[quote="Talyn"]
VB: Fair enough, I just think you would be better with a more tapered approach. How much weight do you think you need to lose, btw?


I thought I was about 62kg but I weighed myself today and I am 65, I want to lose about 10kg. Up until when I weighed myself I was ready to take a more tapered aproach and still focus primarily on strength gain but after seeing how much I really weigh I've decided to focus on losing weight. I love strength training but while I am overweight it will have to come second to losing weight. I'm not going to do the 700cals a day thing unless after 3 weeks of daily cardio and being strict with eating I haven't lost any weight.
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby tal » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:25 pm

[quote="vegieburger"]I thought I was about 62kg but I weighed myself today and I am 65, I want to lose about 10kg. Up until when I weighed myself I was ready to take a more tapered aproach and still focus primarily on strength gain but after seeing how much I really weigh I've decided to focus on losing weight. I love strength training but while I am overweight it will have to come second to losing weight. I'm not going to do the 700cals a day thing unless after 3 weeks of daily cardio and being strict with eating I haven't lost any weight.


Fair enough, but it can backfire. If you cut calories drastically you will most likely retain more water as a direct consequence, which will make the scales say no weight loss (or even weight gain), despite the fact you may be reducing fat/muscle. This can lead to a further reduction of calories or increase in exercise, and further down the spiral you go.

A tapered approach can help alleviate this... but the goal is yours.

To a certain extent, you need to just be happy with the way you are. You might refuse to accept that, but for your own headspace you should not start believing that you are inferior, or that by losing 10kg is all of a sudden going to make everything better.
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby vegieburger » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:41 pm

[quote="Talyn"]Fair enough, but it can backfire. If you cut calories drastically you will most likely retain more water as a direct consequence, which will make the scales say no weight loss (or even weight gain), despite the fact you may be reducing fat/muscle. This can lead to a further reduction of calories or increase in exercise, and further down the spiral you go.

A tapered approach can help alleviate this... but the goal is yours.


What would you suggest as a tapered aproach?

[quote="Talyn"]To a certain extent, you need to just be happy with the way you are. You might refuse to accept that, but for your own headspace you should not start believing that you are inferior, or that by losing 10kg is all of a sudden going to make everything better.


Up until about 20 months ago I had always been thin so I don't think this is my natural body size, I just eat too much. I've tried to just be happy with the size and I would love to be able to not care about my physical appearence but I can't do it. I hate looking like this and am turning into a fat miserable blob.
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby JP » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:26 pm

take a bit of a professional approach, like martial artists or powerlifters etc making their weight cuts. There wont be any room for strength loss, but the approach can be pretty strict.

I would first note down your daily eating, and your training, maybe write them here for criticism. Simple apprach is to just change small things to start with, cutting the "junk", cutting some portion sizes, upping the relative percentage of protein intake and so on. In training looking at the overall calorie expenditure impact of it, and maybe get more done in less time.

losing that weight is not an unrealistic goal, but since you have started lifting, perhaps you have put on fair bit of muscle too and that weighs more, so rather than looking at scales, maybe also look at body composition?
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