meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

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meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

Postby knackers » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:05 am

The post is a bit long but bear with me, I have recently had some interesting conversations I just have to share.

I met a lady in her mid to late 40's who is also a raw food part time vegan enthusiast who owns a healthstore, who was preaching alot about superfoods, greens, the chimpanzee diet and then we got on the subject of veganism, as I was lookin for a vegan protein powder. She told me that she was a vegan for most of the time. I said (why not all of the time?). She said because every month almost like a timeclock she gets this craving where she starts to salivate at the thought of meat, so when she gets this feeling she has a steak the size of the palm of her hand and wulah, all fixed till next month.
Just the way she emphasized the word salivate with intense facial expressions and hand waving made me feel nauseus, I just thought to myself 'Oh my god, this lady is actually serious. She actually beleives it.' I had an intense craving of my own and that craving was to punch her kind in the head! Oh but I only do it once a month so thats ok then isnt' it!

The other one was a fella at a clothing store, they have a heap of stuff promoting the good work they do for animals and what not, actually sounded pretty good, the guy was explaining about a heap of animal orgs they are actively donating too and how important it is too help the innocent and then brought out his dogs and they had veganpet as a sponsor so I said 'you must be vegan then?' He said he's tried 3 times to go vegetarian but become sick and weekly and once he had a piece of meet... bam, back to his healthy self. He claims he was even having protein supplements, and help with nutrition from vegos, he insisted that it was him, he just needs meat. He even hinted towards himself having hunting characterisitics of a carnivore and told us he will do what it takes to survive and he has had the hunting instinct all of his life, infact he would have no problem eating humans but then flipped back to telling us he entirely understands the concept of vegetarian and is a hypocrite for not being one it's just that it is him, he has an instinct so to speak.... he cannot go without meat or he turns pale and weak. He even said that he belted a slaughterhouse worker once because of what he done to animals but then sort of gave the whole spiel over again about his need for meat.
I was so confused what was coming out of this guys mouth he often didnt make much sense, I just wanted to hand him some toilet paper for the chronic leakage at his mouthpiece.

Incase this happens again, please tell me. Is there any humans that have a rare disease/illness/bodytype/bloodline/genepool/dna complex/whatever that they NEED meat ?
And do you have a study or something that shows meat is not needed by the humanbody in anycase so that I can flick them a copy that will hopefully help them realise they are not a lion.
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Re: meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

Postby Konstantin » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:13 am

I think maybe these people are just not eating enough. It happens a lot when people first go vegan (Carl Lewis did this) because meat is calorie dense and they don't increase the volume.

The other main reason is habit. If you've been eating something for years and then you change there will be a bit in the back of your mind saying you need it again. Especially if there was lots of comments about eating up your meat to grow big and strong.
You can see my training log if you're really bored: [url]www.veganfitness.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16086&start=360[/url]
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Re: meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

Postby eccoboy » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:24 am

http://www.beyondveg.com/

Well written articles that may answer your question. You may not agree with the information presented, but I encourage anyone who is vegan to visit this site if you haven't already, with an open mind.
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Re: meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

Postby JP » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:03 am

eccoboy wrote:http://www.beyondveg.com/

Well written articles that may answer your question. You may not agree with the information presented, but I encourage anyone who is vegan to visit this site if you haven't already, with an open mind.


nah i dont encourage anyone to go there :D People overthink things! veganism is not that difficult - in fact, its fucking simple - unless you read a lot of stuff on the internet and are easily influenced :D
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Re: meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

Postby baldy » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:14 am

knackers wrote:....he cannot go without meat or he turns pale and weak..

I love it when people start tell me this kind of thing. :) I just smile at them and tell them I am vegan.

Lots of people have told me the story of a friend or friends friend that was veggie for years then one day had to eat a steak or the Dr told them to eat meat else they would die. The tone people use makes it sound like they expect the same to happen to me, but I keep on proving them wrong!
"A wise man once said, "It's easier to buy smaller clothes, than to put on 5kg." ... Buzz
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Re: meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

Postby Gelert » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:18 am

knackers wrote:....she gets this craving where she starts to salivate at the thought of meat, so when she gets this feeling she has a steak the size of the palm of her hand and wulah, all fixed till next month.....


Image

Is all.
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Re: meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

Postby knackers » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:25 am

Eccoboy - I think you posted the wrong link, I keep getting some fad paleonut website, please update this!

baldy wrote:
knackers wrote:....he cannot go without meat or he turns pale and weak..

I love it when people start tell me this kind of thing. :) I just smile at them and tell them I am vegan.

Lots of people have told me the story of a friend or friends friend that was veggie for years then one day had to eat a steak or the Dr told them to eat meat else they would die. The tone people use makes it sound like they expect the same to happen to me, but I keep on proving them wrong!

Hehe, yeh it was funny as he was saying it I was trying on the biggest size of random clothing items he had and said to him, "how do you explain this, Ive been a scrawny vegan for over 3 years and Im still to big for all the clothes in here!"
I ended up with a couple of skintight beach shirts and I regard myself as medium-thin for my height! He'd be screwed if someone like Hannibal or JP went waltzing in there, barely fit a fucken arm in there :lol:
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Re: meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

Postby Konstantin » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:54 am

JP wrote:
eccoboy wrote:veganism is not that difficult - in fact, its fucking simple - unless you read a lot of stuff on the internet and are easily influenced :D


+1

I seem to get more than my fair share of ill-informed anti-vegans who would struggle to fill up the back of a postage stamp with all their nutritional knowledge and there is a risk of falling into their way of thinking. Lets be practical. What do you need from a diet? How much of that is available from vegetables in some form? What's left over? The answer to the last is pretty much nothing, and like Baldy, most of us are far from keeling over and dying through 'lack of meat'. If you're not eating enough carbs, fats, calcium, potassium, B17, vitamin XYZ or whatever, just eat it from a veg source. As vegans tend to eat more volume (because animal products are less calorie dense) for many nutrients they'll be in a better position than if they ate meat.

[Aside]Baldy, I'm imagining that your detractors are like mine, ill-informed and in far worse shape. These meat-heads are usually pretty helpful to establishing that veganism is a pretty good way to live.
You can see my training log if you're really bored: [url]www.veganfitness.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16086&start=360[/url]
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Re: meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

Postby Clem Snide » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:01 am

baldy wrote:
knackers wrote:....he cannot go without meat or he turns pale and weak..

I love it when people start tell me this kind of thing. :) I just smile at them and tell them I am vegan.

Lots of people have told me the story of a friend or friends friend that was veggie for years then one day had to eat a steak or the Dr told them to eat meat else they would die. The tone people use makes it sound like they expect the same to happen to me, but I keep on proving them wrong!


Heard it a billion times. "Yeah I used to be vegan but then my eyeballs fell out so I had a bacon butty and now I'm fine, your body can't survive properly without Dairylea slices and Pepperami."

My habitual answer is to offer to fight these people.
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Re: meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

Postby Konstantin » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:07 am

Clem Snide wrote:My habitual answer is to offer to fight these people.


ROFL!

I've actually done a less aggressive version in a workplace of 5 people and given them a choice:
Half marathon
One minute press ups
One hour sit ups
10 mins curling 20kg for max reps.

If any of you can beat this weedy vegan at any of these events then you're right. You choose.

(But you have to be careful where you offer this challenge).
You can see my training log if you're really bored: [url]www.veganfitness.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16086&start=360[/url]
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Re: meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

Postby JP » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:39 am

i miss the days when people questioned my diet :(

finally when i am big and strong enough to fuck them up on the spot, no one mentions anything anymore :(
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Re: meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

Postby Cecilia » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:40 pm

I actually think there might be something to it, although on a WAY smaller scale than the anti-vegans present it. They use anecdotal evidence ("this person got sick") to make general statements ("people need meat"), but answering that with anecdotal evidence ("I'm not sick, so your person isn't either") does not feel satisfactory to me.

It's still not at all clear what goes on in our guts, exactly. Take only the role of bacteria living there. It's subject to active research, and many things we just don't know. I wouldn't be at all surprised if evidence popped up showing that a minority of people can only digest/make use of certain nutrients when they come in flesh-like packages. Hopefully, that research will also give us a handhold to make plant-based supplements in a way those people can digest.

This is also why we eat whole foods, right? It's not just the nutrients, it's also how they arrive, otherwise it would be just as healthy to pop a multivitamin, drink a protein shake, and get the remainder of your calories from McAwful.
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Re: meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

Postby baldy » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:14 pm

Cecilia wrote:This is also why we eat whole foods, right? It's not just the nutrients, it's also how they arrive, otherwise it would be just as healthy to pop a multivitamin, drink a protein shake, and get the remainder of your calories from McAwful.

Do not forget get enough fibre, omega 3/6, all those essential minerals and anything else I forgot. If you did I think you would be fine.

Also wholefood is such a vague term. Not sure when I last ate anything that was not processed in anyway, probably the sliced tomato I had on a sammie a week ago.
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Re: meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

Postby Clem Snide » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:17 pm

Cecilia wrote:This is also why we eat whole foods, right? It's not just the nutrients, it's also how they arrive, otherwise it would be just as healthy to pop a multivitamin, drink a protein shake, and get the remainder of your calories from McAwful.


Excepting the potentially damaging fats you would get from the burger place, I don't see why that wouldn't be just as healthy, assuming you did indeed choose exactly the right intake of vitamins, taken in the right combinations etc etc. It doesn't sound healthy, but I don't see why it wouldn't work in theory.

It's just a lot simpler and a lot nicer to eat vegetables etc.
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Re: meat deficiency or do you think your a lion?

Postby Cecilia » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:36 pm

Clem Snide wrote:
Cecilia wrote:Excepting the potentially damaging fats you would get from the burger place, I don't see why that wouldn't be just as healthy, assuming you did indeed choose exactly the right intake of vitamins, taken in the right combinations etc etc. It doesn't sound healthy, but I don't see why it wouldn't work in theory.

It's just a lot simpler and a lot nicer to eat vegetables etc.


I think the sting is in the "right combinations". That's the hard part.
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