Convincing people that plant protein is good as animal prot?

Any queries about vegan diet, nutrition, dieting, bulking and healthy eating in general. Diets and food from vegan perspective.

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Postby veggie_guy80 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:06 pm

Well said Ava.
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Re: colonialism

Postby fredrikw » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:19 am

[quote="veggie_guy80"][quote="base_trix"][quote="veggie_guy80"]Surely to be an 'academic', one must be able to spell and use punctuation to at least a vaguely intelligible standard?


... in their own language, probably. Why in yours?

With what degree of grammatical competence would you be able to discuss esoteric metabolism issues in Tamil?


That is beside the point. Why is he posting on an English language forum and expecting people to take him seriously when he can barely construct a coherent sentence? I know several people who have English as their second language, yet can actually write.


yes, and lucky for all of us we're not all the same. come on, lay off with the language discussion, this is and will always be an international board, and you should really be a bit more humble to the fact that everyone is speaking your language here. look at the content, not the form.
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Postby ssrvj » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:24 pm

The Duke ---You are right.In Jainism 100% follwers are Vegetarians(lacto-vegetarians). but in Hindu Religion only about 20% in North India(they call themselves as "Vaishnos" and about 12 to 15% in South india are lacto- vegetarians-In South India they call themselves as "Saivas".You are aware Buddism also teaches "Non-Killing of Animals" (Ahinsa). Bhudism was followed by almost the entire lenghth and breadth of Indian Sub-continent(except a small portion of land South to Madurai), Alexander(a Greek Genral) invaded India in 300 B.C.E. and at that time the Magadha was at its pinnacle of its glory.The son of the King of Magadha(Bihar-U.P-) at that time was a monster, torturing people and putting them in jail for small omissions and commissions(Kautilya=Chanakya prevented that monster from becoming a King)--About 8000 families at that time moved to the safe land, South to Madurai--All of them were Lacto-vegetarians.They were practising Lacto-Vegetarian habits 200-300 years before that(about 2300-2600 years before)--it is why I wrote 3000year Vegetarian.
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Postby ssrvj » Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:18 pm

The Duke , I forgot to mention one more point.Your estimate "Jainism' is only 1500 years old is NOT correct-I qoute from Online Encylopedia Britannica:-"Beginning in the 7th–5th century BCE, Jainism evolved into a cultural system that"------(2007+700=2707)--You can verify yourself--So Jainism is 2500 to 2700 years old.
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Postby ssrvj » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:24 pm

Base_trix----thank you for your helpful comments---In Tamil nadu we have studied British Royal English under such eminent Teachers like Rev.Fr. Jerome D'souza, Rev.Fr.T.N Sequira,Rev.Fr.S.Thomas and Wren & Martin (British)grammer-- it is unfortunate that these "Yankee English" speaking persons have the audacity to comment on my English!!---the kind of persons who write "Gotten: as Past Paticiple-(get-got-got).We have been taught "Advice" as noun and "Advise"as verb--These yankees write "Advise" for both noun and verb.-- it is their "Hay days",because they can blackmail, they "would scream me out of this Message Board"--There is an old adage-"When Logic fails a person will eithr weep or get Angry"--they do both!!!!. they do not know how to scientifically convince a person---they know "Cut and Paste" art.--as i already told ,I am a 3000 yers old Vegetarian--In fact in "Yahoo Answers" I plead,goad, coax, persuade, wheedle, entice, inveigle,tempt, lure MEAT EATERS to switch over to Vegetarian foods,because they are Excellent .I have published 20 Research Papers in very reputed Journals-3 of them have won Capt.Srinivasa Murthy Gold Medals-telling the people (for 36 years) on the importance of including such rare herbs in their diets,which people have stopped using long back- like Vallarai(Tamil)(Centelle asiatica Linn)----Mookirattai(Tamil) (Boerhavia diffua Linn)---Guggulu(Commifera mukul Engl)--Aswagandha(Withania somnifera Dumal),---Kaakamachi(Solanam nigrum)-- etc---thse 3 day!!!! vegans tell me that I am an "Enemy of Vegetarian diets"!!!!!!!!
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Postby Fallen_Horse » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:36 pm

Do you really have a purpose with these posts? All I can get out of them is that you went to school for a long time in your home country and you knew a lot of important people.

Interesting, but it doesn't really relate to veganism and eating right... :)



P.S. - I have never used advice and advise incorrectly like you described, so please don't be so quick to generalize an entire population of people...
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Postby veggie_guy80 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:22 pm

Actually, this guy is starting to be f****g hilarious, he must be smoking some seriously good indian hashish to post all this stuff.

:lol:
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Postby arts_bandit » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:09 am

I believe its called Charis (sic) in some parts of India....but yes, he is quite entertaining, even if it makes my eyes hurt to read the dense prose!
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Postby AbFab » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:25 pm

Whoa! I second what JP said in response to the patronising angry post and accusations of trolling. ssrvj did not come across to me as a troll, and I think unless you are more certain, new members should be given the benefit of the doubt, and treated more respectfully. A lot of non-vegans come on this board, and I think to be confronted with such ire will a) drive people away and b) have them start thinking that we are a bunch of angry venomous cranks, and that does nothing to this ‘cause’. To use a totally UNvegan saying, “A spoonful of honey will catch more flies than a gallon of vinegar!”. For the person in question to have found us in the first place, maybe they are genuinely interested in veganism, and just want to hash it all out and get convinced.

I also challenge that veganism is “not an issue of nutrition, but of ethics”. Well, to me, it IS an issue of nutrition – that is paramount. Not only to me, but that was the slant of the original poster’s question – that we need to convince people that we ARE superlatively healthy on this diet. Saving animals is all well and good, but you won’t appeal to all people that way – convince them it’s supremely healthy, and you might get a better response. Convince people they should just go vegan ‘for the animals’, and have them clueless about nutrition, will not look good! I believe veganism is THE healthiest way to live, not just for my body, but for my soul.
Yes, this is a vegan board, but we should be able to answer people rationally, and we need to bear in mind that most people are raised believing meat/dairy IS food = nutrition. I am hopefully able to eloquently state that it doesn’t actually need to be like that, and to get them to reconsider, more gracefully. I am happy to be challenged on my views, and happy to set people straight and show them by example how healthy I am, how fit etc.

I am appalled, veggie_guy80, that you choose to highlight spelling and grammatical errors, and go on to state that this is an English language forum. No it is not! We are LUCKY that this is a primarily English language board, and I applaud all people who come on here and participate, when English is not their mother tongue. I am grateful that people from all over the world, of all ages, of all backgrounds, of all religions (or none), post on this board. I think you have been very unfair here.

However, I will say that there is nothing wrong with ‘gotten’.

Now, as for my reply to the very first question, that of convincing the flatmate – maybe show him the photos of all our gorgeous strong, fit, healthy people on this forum – and see if he can see that oh, actually – yeah, you CAN get where you want to be by following a vegan diet.

Peace, grace and good luck.
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Postby ssrvj » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:28 pm

vegie:-"Actually, this guy is starting to be f****g hilarious, he must be smoking some seriously good indian hashish to post all this stuff."

Actually this fellow's mouth is a "Filthy" dust bin with discorded hasish--it is why a lot of "F" smell is coming out of his mouth.
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Postby Ava Odoéména » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:51 pm

Ab, I hear you...

However, you overlooked one very important aspect in your apologetic defense, *the* aspect which was the central point of critique.

By not confronting people advertising the exploitation and killing of animal persons (represented by eggs and dairy), you are condoning it.

You cautioned ethnocentric behavior, as well as "unfriendly" one, but not speciesistic behavior.

May I ask you why?

Are nonhuman animals of lesser importance in your social attitude hierarchy? And even if this was the case, would not the drastic violence represented by eggs and dairy push down everything else on your list of social urgencies?

Not to forget of course, that your new found friend is meanwhile merrily conducting the exact behavior which you criticized in others. (Which BTW, is no big problem to me, as long as he isn't advertising violence products.)
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Postby JP » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:32 am

ava, please be self critical for a second. A new member comes on the board and sounds ignorrant, the WORST thing you can do is to act like patronising and condecending aggressor. I already said that this is not how we should be welcoming folk to this board, and that stands. Its part and parcel of this being a vegan campaigning vehicle.

What you posted now brings nothing new to the table - we meet non-vegans with ignorrant opinions and remarks on a daily basis, so i would imagine that we should all be fairly used to handling this kind of comments, whether it is in a forum post or real life comment.

Now because of this attacking tone the following discussion has been utterly worthless, and that wont help anyone.

We really should split this thread because there is some good info to start with and then it all goes downhill...
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Postby Fallen_Horse » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:09 pm

[quote="JP"]We really should split this thread because there is some good info to start with and then it all goes downhill...

Agreed
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Postby Ava Odoéména » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:13 pm

OK I apologize if I've come across as a "patronizing and condescending aggressor" (whoa!), however I am not planning to apologize for criticizing the advertisement of dairy and eggs as food. I'd rather cease writing here than doing that.

I think splitting the thread is a good idea as well, although I don't think a lively debate actually reduces the quality - it does tend to go off the initial topic which dilutes the general information content, yes. Sometimes it's nice when we move out of the cubes of the superficiality of symbolistic reductionism and actually talk to each other in an undecorated manner, though that is my (very humble) opinion of course and not everybody is likely to agree with me on this to the fullest extend possible. SCNR:-) I'm a bit mystified as to why my behavior wasn't opposed in other threads where it did appear, like the raw food. I wasn't particularly gentle towards Ha while addressing some of the mechanically repeated inconsistencies of raw food either, though he digested whatever I served very well (no pun intended).

Ab, there is no need to answer my questions, they were of rhetorical nature anyway.

Ok I'll shut up now.

I'm all quiet.

Not a word.

Pssst.

.
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Postby JP » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:40 pm

[quote="Ava Odoéména"] however I am not planning to apologize for criticizing the advertisement of dairy and eggs as food.


sure, thats cool, its even in the rules that promoting animal products is not allowed here :D
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