Convincing people that plant protein is good as animal prot?

Any queries about vegan diet, nutrition, dieting, bulking and healthy eating in general. Diets and food from vegan perspective.

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Postby arts_bandit » Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:54 am

I stopped listening or even thinking about what he had to 'say' when it was mentioned that his diet was prescripted by his religion....
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Postby JP » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:20 am

I dont think ssrvj is a troll, and i dont think it is constructive to start a discussion with such a negative and offensive tone with a new member and someone who could be here to learn as well.

After all, this is part of vegan campaigning, and i sincerely hope that is not your tone in your normal discussions with non-vegans when the subject comes up ;)

Lets all just be a bit more welcoming and courteous to people who are new to vegan issues.
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Postby Ava Odoéména » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:39 pm

I found his or her post highly annoying. Everything about it. Still do. The pompous ignorance and audacity irritates the hell out of me. My tone was the exact reflection of the emotion caused as a response to something which did not originate from me. Yes my post was harsh and I would probably be stunned if someone wrote a post to me like that, but while I do see myself as a vegan campaigner, I don't see myself as a saleswoman or marketer of veganism, ethics is not a product I'm trying to push, so why should I repress my emotions and grin a cheesy smile when I'm pissed off? I'm not sure to be pretentious is within my emotional capacity, but I also don't think this is what you are asking of me. Isn't it perhaps my anger which will make him/her to actually start thinking consciously? Hard to say of course. No, this is not the normal way I interact with nonvegans, but I do have my triggers. Mindlessness and ignorance happen to be two of them.

And while I might have screamed him off the board, consider also the many "almost-vegans" who would have read his post and start to waver, losing confidence in the ripening decision they are about to take. This is what I feel his only purpose and interest was to appear here, not only to project but also as a destroyer to spread FUD among those just about to take the plunge into veganism. We all remember how insecure we were in the beginning, reading so much different negative stuff, each single one resonating like an off-beat alarm clock. I have very little tolerance for people who want to amplify these insecureties. Friendliness is important, I agree, but I also think there are times when friendliness is not the most efficient pathway. A healthy board is well capable to absorb such ripples. I believe this board is of such health.
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Postby Fallen_Horse » Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:05 pm

[quote="JP"]I dont think ssrvj is a troll, and i dont think it is constructive to start a discussion with such a negative and offensive tone with a new member and someone who could be here to learn as well.

After all, this is part of vegan campaigning, and i sincerely hope that is not your tone in your normal discussions with non-vegans when the subject comes up ;)

Lets all just be a bit more welcoming and courteous to people who are new to vegan issues.

Yes.
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Postby veggie_guy80 » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:49 pm

ssrvj, as an academic in nutrition, surely you must be aware of the major health issues associated with cow's milk and research such as the China Study by one of the world's leading nutritionists?
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Postby veggie_guy80 » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:54 pm

[quote="JP"]

veggie_guy80, we should solve this problem of yours once and for all mate :D Start a thread about your current diet plan and lets shred it to pieces, or if you want, lets bump up the bulkers corner thread and see some example daily diet plans? You dont have to eat an "optimal diet" unless you already are very big competetive bodybuilder, but if you are struggling to put on weight, there is ALWAYS a reason for it which can be easily fixed.


Thanks, at the minute I am concentrating on losing my gut and exercising my abs. I'm basically having porridge in the morning with chopped banana, hemp seeds, cinnamon and soy milk plus another piece of fruit. Often I will drink a cup of Green Tea with this.

Throughout the day I am snacking on fruit and seeds as well as nutritional yeast.

For dinner I am having something quite substantial, often revolving around tofu or seitan (or mung beans tonight!) and plenty of green veg, i.e. broccoli and spinach. I'll chuck pumpkin seeds in there too.

I'm doing pressups, using my lateral thigh trainer and doing crunches and dips as a 'circuit'. I try to get an hour long walk in each day too. I am certainly getting a sweat up and losing weight. I am also avoiding alcohol completely.
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Postby Konstantin » Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:37 am

[quote="JP"]I dont think ssrvj is a troll.


What's a troll? I was telling my wee boy about one who lived under a bridge and got knocked into the water for getting terratorial, but I guess you're talking about something different?
You can see my training log if you're really bored: [url]www.veganfitness.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16086&start=360[/url]
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Vegan Diets,Nutrition and Health Eating

Postby ssrvj » Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:55 pm

I thought this is a scientific forum where i can take part in meaningful discussions and share knowledge.I did not know that this a "Campaign Forum" .I do not know why that person AVA is fuming, fretting,sweating threatening and blackmailing that he/she would "scream" me out of the forum!!!!!!! .I stand by what i have already said-whether i am in "this" Campaign forum or not.I have already expressed similar feelings in "yahoo Answers" forum. I am a 3000 year Vegetarian -not 3 days Vegan!.In my country we won't tolerate like a Vegan in a Western country,if a meat eater, eats meat next to our table.Vegan and Meat Restraunts are seperate--Meat prepering Cooks would not be employed by a Vegan Restaurent.--they would close their shops without business.I (a 70 year old vegan)do not need lessons from a 3 day Vegan!!-What his/her ANGRY will do me? it will increase only his/her Ephinephrine and sit in beta receptors of the heart to increase his/her cardiac output.OM! Shanti!Shanti!Shanti=let their be peace in thought, word and deed!!!

It appears his/her Bio-chemistry knowledge also seems to be a big Zero(except bravado and Gasconade!).From vegetables only the Phytic acid(Oxidised Phytol of chlorophyl of green vegetables in fair amounts) is the chelating agent of calcium.Oxalate is negligible .oxalates mostly come from glycine catabolism and HMP shunt from glycolate>Oxalate.Phytic acid and metabolic oxalate chelates the meagerly available Calcium due to lack of Milk,resulting in Osteophoresis and Paget's Disesease at middle age.Dietary calcium:phsphorous ratio is also a "limiting factor' in the formation of bone,tooth and nail calcification-the subject is not that simple as it appears.To make "Fun' of my academics" some "Competence" is required.-Many of my Ph.D.students are working all over the world-you name any country in the Globe- one of my students is there.Be Peaceful and Happy.
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Re: Vegan Diets,Nutrition and Health Eating

Postby Fallen_Horse » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:04 am

[quote="Papaya"]What's a troll? I was telling my wee boy about one who lived under a bridge and got knocked into the water for getting terratorial, but I guess you're talking about something different?

A forum troll is someone who just posts to cause trouble and inflame the members on the board...


[quote="ssrvj"]...one should include Milk and -if necessary un-ferrtilised eggs to get quality protein nutrition.


[quote="ssrvj"]I thought this is a scientific forum where i can take part in meaningful discussions and share knowledge.I did not know that this a "Campaign Forum" .I do not know why that person AVA is fuming, fretting,sweating threatening and blackmailing that he/she would "scream" me out of the forum!!!!!!! .I stand by what i have already said-whether i am in "this" Campaign forum or not.I have already expressed similar feelings in "yahoo Answers" forum. I am a 3000 year Vegetarian -not 3 days Vegan!.In my country we won't tolerate like a Vegan in a Western country,if a meat eater, eats meat next to our table.Vegan and Meat Restraunts are seperate--Meat prepering Cooks would not be employed by a Vegan Restaurent.--they would close their shops without business.I (a 70 year old vegan)do not need lessons from a 3 day Vegan!!-What his/her ANGRY will do me? it will increase only his/her Ephinephrine and sit in beta receptors of the heart to increase his/her cardiac output.OM! Shanti!Shanti!Shanti=let their be peace in thought, word and deed!!!

It appears his/her Bio-chemistry knowledge also seems to be a big Zero(except bravado and Gasconade!).From vegetables only the Phytic acid(Oxidised Phytol of chlorophyl of green vegetables in fair amounts) is the chelating agent of calcium.Oxalate is negligible .oxalates mostly come from glycine catabolism and HMP shunt from glycolate>Oxalate.Phytic acid and metabolic oxalate chelates the meagerly available Calcium due to lack of Milk,resulting in Osteophoresis and Paget's Disesease at middle age.Dietary calcium:phsphorous ratio is also a "limiting factor' in the formation of bone,tooth and nail calcification-the subject is not that simple as it appears.To make "Fun' of my academics" some "Competence" is required.-Many of my Ph.D.students are working all over the world-you name any country in the Globe- one of my students is there.Be Peaceful and Happy.


You may be intelligent but you are still wrong. :(
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Postby veggie_guy80 » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:45 pm

Surely to be an 'academic', one must be able to spell and use punctuation to at least a vaguely intelligible standard?

Upon trying to decipher that mass of spelling mistakes and bad grammar and punctuation, it seems you are sayng a lack of cow's milk is responsible for the development in middle age of osteoporosis? That is clear nonsense. Please look at this link:

http://www.vegetarian.org.uk/factsheets ... sheet.html

All dietary needs can be met through a well balanced vegan diet. That is a fact.
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Re: Vegan Diets,Nutrition and Health Eating

Postby The Duke » Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:07 pm

[quote="ssrvj"] I am a 3000 year Vegetarian -not 3 days Vegan!.


Please correct me if I'm wrong here ssrv, but a vegan approach to life is not a new concept in India. It may not be 3000 years old, but Jainism has been promoting Veganism for a good 15 centuries. In fact, isn't it also true that Jainism was responsible for promoting a vegetarian lifestyle within the Hindu community? If that is the case (and I think it is) how could a Vegetarian tradition predate Jainism by another 1500 years?
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colonialism

Postby base_trix » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:14 pm

[quote="veggie_guy80"]Surely to be an 'academic', one must be able to spell and use punctuation to at least a vaguely intelligible standard?


... in their own language, probably. Why in yours?

With what degree of grammatical competence would you be able to discuss esoteric metabolism issues in Tamil?
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Re: colonialism

Postby veggie_guy80 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:00 am

[quote="base_trix"][quote="veggie_guy80"]Surely to be an 'academic', one must be able to spell and use punctuation to at least a vaguely intelligible standard?


... in their own language, probably. Why in yours?

With what degree of grammatical competence would you be able to discuss esoteric metabolism issues in Tamil?


That is beside the point. Why is he posting on an English language forum and expecting people to take him seriously when he can barely construct a coherent sentence? I know several people who have English as their second language, yet can actually write.

I am sure you could wheel in another 'academic' who would tell you that meat is essential for a healthy diet, or the 'best source' of Omega 3s are only found in fish. These people are basically wrong, as the 'regime of truth' they are utilising is flawed in the first place.

One can certainly meet calcium needs via a vegan diet and cow's milk has been linked to a whole raft of illnesses. Human beings also do not need to ingest animal products to meet protein requirements, even as athletes. All this is proven.

This bloke has come onto a vegan website to promote animal products, surely an 'intellectual' like him can see the pitfalls associated with this and may want to reflect on his motivations for doing so?
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Postby tempehmomma » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:01 am

I don't bother trying to convince people that plant protien is as good as animal protein. I got into a debate on another forum about this topic. None of the members of this other forum could back up there arguements with scientific facts. I backed up my arguements with research, studies, etc... One person replied Do you really exspect forum members to read all of the info from the website links you posted? :? :roll: Excuse me for doing my homework. :lol:

Another guy said it's easier to gain muscle mass eating animal protein. I guess he's to lazy to do research and figure out how to eat a balanced vegan diet. :roll:

Family members and there friends ask me how I get enough protein or why don't I eat meat or dairy. I don't bother responding to people who don't exercise, are overweight, smoke and need synthetic drugs to control diabetes II, high cholesterol, high blood pressure. I control those aliments naturally with nutrition and exercise.
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Postby Ava Odoéména » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:39 pm

S/he may be an academic, but s/he is still a troll, a sad one, since s/he doesn't even realize that s/he is one. But anyway, s/he's a good example of the kind of psychology behind the 'pro meat/dairy/eggs' research.

> I thought [...]

You thought wrongly. This is a vegan board, we are not interested in non-vegan nutrition, we don't see it as nutrition, can't you get that into your head? Vegans do not see products from animals as food, is that so hard to understand?

That you continue touting the glory of dairy and eggs is not only a social violation against participants of this forum, it is equivalent to a sexist touting the glory of patriarchy on a feminist board, equivalent of touting the glory of slave labour on a civil liberty board, equivalent of touting the glory of beating children on a children's rights board. In other words: It's plain dumb.

BTW, I'm female, and my name is spelled Ava and not AVA.
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