Convincing people that plant protein is good as animal prot?

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Convincing people that plant protein is good as animal prot?

Postby veggie_guy80 » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:41 pm

My flatmate (lacto ovo veggie) is adamant that animal protein such as whey and egg is far superior to plant protein found in nuts/seeds and soy. He reads Men's Health and says he has read it in there numerous times so it must be correct.

I am trying to convince him to go vegan but I can't seem to convince him. Any advice?
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Postby Fallen_Horse » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:28 am

If he uses Mens Health mag then you can't really teach him anything, it's hopeless. :(


Nah not really, but there are a massive number of information sources about the quality of animal and plant proteins. Just Google and you can find a lot. Or someone else can explain more if you want...
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Postby Jonathan » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:34 am

The best thing to do is not to become embroiled in debates like this. There will be studies that back both sides of the argument, so it isn't one that either of you can win.

The best thing to do is to say that you respect his point of view, but in your opinion, he is wrong. Then go to the gym and get fooking huge! 8)
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Postby The Duke » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:41 am

Provide an example of the lack of efficacy of other Mens Health articles.

I seem to remember that the cover usually has an article entitled "rock hard abbs in six weeks" or "get a six pack for summer" or "iron abbs for easter". You get the idea?

Anyway, unless he does have a rock hard six pack then there is a disconnect between Mens Health and reality - yes?
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Postby veggie_guy80 » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:45 am

Hi, he doesn't have a six pack but has a book produced by Men's Health on building muscle. In it, it states clearly that animal protein is better than plant protein.
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Postby Jonathan » Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:23 pm

Aye, the Duke makes a good point. Men's Health is universally laughed at in the Strength training world, and is an authority on nothing.

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Postby Fruitbat » Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:27 pm

Men;s health from what I hear is good for a laugh but not much else (except toilet paper in the emergency situation where bog-roll runs out) :lol:
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Postby Konstantin » Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:38 pm

[quote="Jonathan"]Then go to the gym and get fooking huge! 8)


To some people theoretical data is more convincing. To others, evidence is more persuative. Maybe a few pictures of some vegan bodybuilders like Robert Cheeke, Kenneth Williams etc. may be persuasive. Show him some of the vids on YouTube of the VF guys competing in strongm,an, and print off the strength table. It might be a nice question to ask where he'd fit in on the table among these weedy vegans.

I've just had a similarly 'knowledgeable' person suggest I eat meat for running, and it's great to be able to refer to recent events like Scott Jarek's ultras.

To return to theorietical arguments, if he is a theoretical thinker, try to find out what it is that meat protein supposedly does tht plant protein doesn't do. The only argument I've heard is that plants are not a complete protein. My response is that this is pretty meaningless. The body can't use protein, it makes protein using amino acids. As long as you get a full set of amino acids, you're fine. Nobody suggests you're going to eat only one food, so where's the problem? The only way this could inhibit you is if you didn't eat variety - eg grains ONLY or beans ONLY.
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Postby virago » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:09 pm

I don't understand...can this not be solved by telling him to HTFU?
8) :wink:
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Postby The Duke » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:18 pm

[quote="Fruitbat"]Men;s health from what I hear is good for a laugh but not much else (except toilet paper in the emergency situation where bog-roll runs out) :lol:


The paper is too shiney. It would just slide about.
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Postby SpugFab » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:29 pm

[quote="Fruitbat"]Men;s health from what I hear is good for a laugh but not much else (except toilet paper in the emergency situation where bog-roll runs out) :lol:

This is a little bit harsh. Some pretty respected authors provide articles for Men's Health. I've noticed Alwyn Cosgrove's name popping up in there a few times (my flatmate buys it...).

Our very own Robert Dos Remedios (http://www.veganfitness.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10378) releases the "Men's Health Book of Strength" soon, I'm sure the advice in that will be sound. I'd guess from the fact he's writing the book that he's provided articles for the American version.

The goals of the target audience are a bit different to many of ours (although scarily close to my own - winning at football and looking good on the beach being my #1 priorities) but you can't really pick that many holes in the actual advice dispensed.
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Postby Fallen_Horse » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:48 pm

I would love to see this quote about animal protein being better than plant protein. Maybe looking at PDCAAS?
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Postby Cass » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:40 pm

I think in order to become a true vegan, one has to convert not only for health reasons, but ethical reasons. Try showing your friend sites like milksucks.com or noeggs.org, which show the cruel practices that are used on dairy and egg farms. Many of the detrimental effects these products have on your health are also on this site. I honestly believe that the hormones and antibiotics that these products contain contribute to fat gain. I'm guessing your friend wants to gain muscle, right? He would probably be better off using plant products like soy, which I believe would result in less fat gain with the muscle. I'm not an expert, but these are some of the things I have read on pro-vegan websites.
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Postby bronco » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:52 pm

I think you should point out to him, that even if animal protein would be better in theory in practice he would be very unlikely to notice any difference unless he's training at toplevel and is doing both trainign and nutrition perfectly.
[quote="JP"]Spirulina is a badass crew, and they often just hang around in street corners looking to beat up proteins.

They oftenget confused by the fact that they are almost half protein themselves.
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Postby Little_Wing » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:53 pm

you can read-
Plant proteins in relation to human protein and amino acid nutrition.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstrac ... 03S?ck=nck
Look to full text(pdf) to see answers... and also tehre is information about some myths about vegeterianism...

And also read this
http://www.dietitians.ca/news/downloads ... r_2003.pdf

But there is truth in what your friend tells you...
You just need to yeat lil more...
if you read for example this-
Modified Food Guide Pyramid for Lactovegetarians and Vegans
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/5/1050

"Protein.

The 10th edition RDA for protein [0.8 g/(kg · d), or 63 and 50 g for the reference adult man and woman, respectively] was formulated for diets containing highly digestible, high quality protein (i.e., egg, meat, milk or fish) (15Citation ). If dairy products, whole grains, beans, nuts and seeds are the primary protein sources in the diet, as for lactovegetarians, recalculation of the protein allowance indicates that the protein digestibility score is only ~90%, relative to diets composed of highly digestible protein [see (15Citation ) for calculation example]. For vegan diets, the protein digestibility falls to 76% of the reference value due to the absence of dairy products. Hence, the recommendation for dietary protein should increase ~20% for vegetarians, 1.0 g/(kg · d), or 75 and 60 g for the reference adult man and woman, respectively."

But there is not realy big problem... but its realy true...
try to include more reach protein like quinoa...
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