Suggestions for some tubulars

[xrodolfox]

Ok.
I don't know squat about tires.
I need some tubulars for racing, but I do not want to spend much money. I'm practically out. The cheapest I can get race tubulars around here is for about $100/tire. Too much. So I'm looking online, but have no clue what to get.

Any suggestions?
Someone here said, for example, that Tufo tires have too much rolling resistance for racing. That's the sort of info I need; but more on what i *should* get. Also, of course, I'm looking for vegan tires. No Continentals, for example.

Help!

[Mr. Cleetus]

This is for your TT/Tri bike, I assume, so the other thing to consider is the width of the tire. Different tire profiles fit different rims better in terms of aeroness. What rims are you putting them on? No matter how loath I am to recommend slowtwitch to anyone, it is probably one of the best resources for learning about tires - so it would pay to do a quick search on there. You will probably find that the Corsa CXs or the Zipps are two of the best choices depending on your rim. Did you decide against the zipps?

and don't worry about the contis, they are slow!

[JohnBarleycorn]

I am going to go against whats been said, and suggest the Tufo !

Many people say they roll slowly, but they always felt ok to me. They are light, pump up nice and hard, and they don't seem to puncture. I weigh 76 kg, which is fairly heavy for a cyclist, and have never punctured one, in six years of racing. So I think thats quite important. They work out cheap when you only replace them after they wear out, rather than a puncture after three or four events. I used the 195g ones, which is superlight for a tub.

I've used them all, from the beautiful Clement Criteriums and Strada 66 back in the eighties, to Wolber and Vittoria, Barums in the early nineties (lost me my biggest win ever, after a blow out a mile from the finish), Continentals, and many more.

I still think the Tufo are ok !

If I was a big hitter at national level, I would use Veloflex. But for something reliable and reasonable, I think they are pretty good. And I still went fast on them. Gotta finish the race to win it !

[Mr. Cleetus]

luckily you don't have to go on gut feeling any more Here's a link to some very relevant testing that has been done (I guess you already know it JBC). I'm not implying this should be taking as gospel, as JBC says, there are other factors that come into it such as puncture resistance (although for short Tris: eh, who cares! ) and aeroness, etc. It's certainly a good place to start though:

http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=afm_tire_testing_rev9.pdf&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.biketechreview.com%2Ftires_old%2Fimages%2FAFM_tire_testing_rev9.pdf&ei=4d1fT-yKOOSOiAfyy5C2BQ&usg=AFQjCNHCd_apD5JtUkmdOtn7a5QCIuE87g&cad=rja

[JohnBarleycorn]

Yup. Seen that !

I suspect the shitty roads we TT on in Britain skew the whole rolling resistance thing, as they are super rough and make us work so hard. I don't think we generally get the benefit of the really supple, expensive tubs.

But yes, if I was going for the win in big events, I wouldn't use them.

Maybe I just get turned on about pumping them up to 170psi, and hearing that sound as they 'sing' along the road. Puts me in mind of the few times I used silks, back in the eighties. Nothing like it !

I'm a bit out of touch with the tub debate. Out of touch with many things !

[xrodolfox]

That's a very nice chart.
Although, of course this does nothing for the fact that I'm on a budget. oof.

[JohnBarleycorn]

So what have you found, within your budget ?

Maybe if you give us the options, we can all chip in with opinions ?

[Mr. Cleetus]

shitty roads in Britain?! ha! come down here I think you'll find that the suppleness helps on the coarse stuff as it more easily deforms around it, but maybe you mean something different. Do you really ride at 170psi?!?! crazy mofo. I am running mine at 95ish here now. Have you seen the charts with Crr vs. psi?

I think that was one of the best things about living, riding and racing in Switzerland: the roads are like glass so I could always ride at 170 psi and hear them sing

Rodolfo, I guess you already have a tub wheelset?

[JohnBarleycorn]

I understand about the suppleness helping on rough roads, to a point. But I think great tubs do best on great roads. I have ridden time trials where the roads are too rough to use the aero bars. Really shocking. Nothing like the silky tarmac in France or Switzerland. Just holes, ridges and general roughness.

I think Tufo are best at 160psi and higher. Very unresponsive at lower pressures, but they feel zippy at high pressures. I have never punctured one, in five years of using them. Mind you, I didn't win many races either, but I prefer to put that down to lack of ability and being too old. I wouldn't run normal tubs at that pressure. I think 110psi works best for me, being a fat old 76kg.

And back to the original question......

I think cheap tubs are pretty poor really. In my opinion, anything under £25 in this country isn't really worth using. It'll either be heavy, slow or puncture easily. But over that price, you have a decent choice.

[xrodolfox]

This discussion is incredibly informative. Michigan roads can be amongst the worst in the industrialized roads, especially in Detroit. Luckily, I'm not racing on Detroit's open streets (at least not anytime soon), and thus I would rather get the fastest cheapest tires that i'll only use on race day.

I can keep my regular clinchers for riding in the horrible michigan commutes and the occasional Detroit.

I wanted to spend less than $120 on the pair of tires, but that seems unlikely now. This frightens me.

[Mr. Cleetus]

yeah, good tires do best on good roads, but I suspect bad tires do even worse on bad roads, and the suppleness becomes even more important. It would be good to see some more relevant testing to that though. BTR has done some, but I am not sure how relevant it is to really rough chip, I should look for it again. We have no TTs in NZ that are on a decent surface - such roads are rare. Everything is coarse chip and in generally poor condition. It can be incredibly aggravating and, errr, painful at times!

Rodolfo: have a look at probikekit.co.uk, chainreaction or wiggle - there's a good chance you will be able to get them significantly cheaper from the UK than in the US. Shipping from most UK sites is peanuts, even to NZ.

[Mr. Cleetus]

also gluing technique is important and the tape just does not cut it. Zipp has a tutorial for how to glue properly - it is worth having a look for it.

[JohnBarleycorn]

This discussion is incredibly informative. Michigan roads can be amongst the worst in the industrialized roads, especially in Detroit. Luckily, I'm not racing on Detroit's open streets (at least not anytime soon), and thus I would rather get the fastest cheapest tires that i'll only use on race day.

I can keep my regular clinchers for riding in the horrible michigan commutes and the occasional Detroit.

I wanted to spend less than $120 on the pair of tires, but that seems unlikely now. This frightens me.

As Mr Cleetus says, look at some of the British websites. I think 120USD will get you a good set of tubs. Infact, you should have money left over.

And thinking about this whole tub debate, whats the real difference between the fastest and the slowest tubs ? On normal roads, in normal conditions, by cyclists who aren't top class pros ? I think its all very subjective.

As I said in an earlier post, I have used pretty much every brand of tubulars, over the last 30 years. And they all felt pretty fast to me. I have won races using all brands, but the only one that sticks in my mind was the Barum tub that cost me my biggest win. So thats why I think going for a bit of durability is important. Otherwise, unless I am especially dozy, every set of tubs I have used felt fine.

Is there a 30 watts difference between the best and worst ? I doubt it. Maybe 5 watts ? I don't know. Real world measurements are hard to find. Getting the best aero position will give you more than the best pair of silk tubs. Effective training will give you even more.

Its this sort of thing that puts people off cycling and creates stress and worries.If you are going to win, you'll win, whatever, no matter what brand you use. Strength, fitness and self-belief will win you races. Just get a decent set of tubs and you'll be fine.

[JohnBarleycorn]

also gluing technique is important and the tape just does not cut it. Zipp has a tutorial for how to glue properly - it is worth having a look for it.

What about Tufo Extreme tape ? Thats amazing stuff. I gave up with gluing after I found Extreme tape.

Gluing tubs is the most awful experience in the world, for a first timer. Back at my parents house, there is still Clement tub glue on my bedroom window, from my first attempt, back in 1983. Its impossible to get off. It was in my hair, on the walls, on my shoes........Jeeez......I hated gluing tubs.

I'd recommend Tufo Extreme, as its always worked for me, with no issues.

They even say you can use it on the track, although I'd worry about that. But for road it seems fine.

[JohnBarleycorn]

Parkers have a fair selection;

http://www.parker-international.co.uk/1 ... ular-.html

As an example.