I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

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I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

Postby Herbsman » Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:47 pm

and that rollers are better.

I certainly enjoy riding rollers more than I do a turbo, just because it's more fun, it actually feels like you're riding, you have to balance etc.

The headtube thing makes sense to me - when you push hard on a bike that's on rollers (or on the road) the whole bike steers sideways slightly. This movement absorbs some of the energy you're putting in. But when you push hard on a bike that's on a turbo, the bike is locked in position, so the bike just flexes a hell of a lot more.

So is it true? Should I stick to using the bike that I hate on the rollers?
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Re: I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

Postby JohnBarleycorn » Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:49 am

Speaking as the 'Turbo Trainer King', I think that whole 'stress on the frame' thing isn't worth considering. People said it when they were first invented in the eighties, but I've never seen any evidence. I've never seen a bike damaged in that way.

The main risk is the sweat. I've destroyed several bikes over the last few years, using them on a turbo. The sweat has literally eaten them up ! Don't use your best bike on the turbo. Use a dedicated turbo bike, or be very careful how you maintain and clean it. I've got three wrecked bikes in the shed, victims of sweat !

I think the turbo trainer is an amazing training tool. Thats why people hate it. Its hard, or as hard as you want it to be, and there is no hiding. Rollers are for warming up or warming down. I can't see they have any other use.

A useful session, which you might enjoy......... (evil laugh) :twisted:

Twenty minute warm up, with a few hard sprints
Five,Four minute intervals
Four minute recoveries

If you haven't got power measurement, ride the intervals at just above the level you would ride a ten mile TT, or just below flat out. Heart rate wise, at 90% of max. The last 90 seconds of each one should be awful.

Or, after the fifth one, your eyes should be bleeding !

If you have done them right, as you are just starting with them, you probably wouldn't be able to do all five.

Aim for three or four.

As you get fitter, increase to five minutes, with four minute recoveries, or ride at a higher level for the interval.

Its amazing how long four minutes can take !
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Re: I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

Postby Herbsman » Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:17 am

I know about the sweat - salty water 'eats' into the metal doesn't it? I have a derailleurless steel frame in the shed that's bent as a result of anger... plus a 7 speed wheel that's been sitting on the top shelf at work for 2 years. cranks, bb... should be buildable into a rideable bike
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Re: I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

Postby JohnBarleycorn » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:25 am

Anything you haven't got......let me know.

I have a shed full of old bike bits. All perfect for a trainer bike. Free to a good home.
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And probably the former fastest British Vegan 10, 25 and 50 mile TT rider. Probably.
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Re: I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

Postby Herbsman » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:44 am

almost done - just need an ISIS bottom bracket.

it's a rebuild of this piece of junk:

Image

It really is a heap
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Re: I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

Postby Herbsman » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:52 am

obviously will be riding with clips & straps
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Re: I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

Postby bob_summers » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:02 pm

nah, get it on fixed gear gallery ;-)

i'm on hiatus from the turbo, but used to stick my fixed bike on there as gears are a bit unnecessary on a turbo. you can play tunes with them i suppose. some workouts you get off the net mention gears, but john's intervals above are about all you need. i did similar workouts.. the brain is an amazing thing - it used to trick me into thinking i was on the last interval when i was only on #3. kind of like inbuilt self-preservation.
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Re: I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

Postby JohnBarleycorn » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:52 pm

Yes......Bob is spot on there !

The brain has all sorts of tricks to protect us from the turbo !

Mind you, the other day i set off to do 5 x 4 minutes with 4 minute recoveries at 345watts, and after the first two i was really suffering. Then I realised I had done five minute intervals, not four minutes. I had accidentally given my self extra pain !

Its a twisted world !
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Re: I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

Postby Herbsman » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:02 pm

When you say four minute intervals, I'm quite surprised.

The last time I read about interval training, it said to do 30 second sprints as hard as possible, then recover for 30 secs, and repeat, for x minutes. Maybe doing this three or four times throughout the session

I can't imagine riding at 90% of my maximum effort for an entire four minutes. Perhaps its time to invest in a HRM
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Re: I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

Postby Herbsman » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:03 pm

On the other hand, one thing I really hate is HRM's. stuff like that takes the fun out of riding for me. Makes me feel like a robot, a scientific experiment
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Re: I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

Postby the crazyest vegan » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:20 pm

I like wearing a HRM just so i can see the difference between training and racing, the only way i really use it is when i realise im' hitting 185 on an easy ride or 130 on a hard ride. then it's time to sit up or get in the drops!
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Re: I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

Postby the crazyest vegan » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:22 pm

Also, if your going to use a HRM on the turbo...please make sure the batteries are working, i planned a session last year where i had 20 mins warm up at 130pbm, batteries were a bit flat so i was actually doing closer to 170 from cold, i gave up on the turbo after that, need a new one as well actually.
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Re: I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

Postby JohnBarleycorn » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:23 pm

[quote="Herbsman"]When you say four minute intervals, I'm quite surprised.

The last time I read about interval training, it said to do 30 second sprints as hard as possible, then recover for 30 secs, and repeat, for x minutes. Maybe doing this three or four times throughout the session

I can't imagine riding at 90% of my maximum effort for an entire four minutes. Perhaps its time to invest in a HRM



Yu have to think about how the interval is affecting your body, and what system its training. How does it relate to your racing ?

30 Sec intervals are still mostly aerobic, but i think they have limited use in road races. Four minute intervals are more typical of the sort of efforts you'll be making.....chasing breaks, working in a break, crossing gaps etc.

You can drive yourself mad designing interval sessions, but to be honest, you'll cover everything if you do;

5x4minutes with four minute recoveries,

maybe building to

5x5 minutes with four minute recoveries

and

2x20 minutes, with ten minutes recoveries

maybe building to

3x20 minutes with ten minutes recoveries.

One of each, every week. With steady riding inbetween. if you do them properly you won't feel like doing much else.

You'll get so fit if you stick to them. Fitter than you ever imagined.
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And probably the former fastest British Vegan 10, 25 and 50 mile TT rider. Probably.
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Re: I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

Postby JohnBarleycorn » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:30 pm

I don't use a HRM anymore. Its only a rough indicator. I'm lucky that I can train with power, which is a better measure of effort.

I use a PowerTap power meter for the two interval sessions, and then for my steady rides I go on feel. If i feel strong i ride harder, if I feel tired, I ride easier.

For the intervals, if i can hit the power level required, I do the intervals. If I can't hold the power, i must be tired, either physically or mentally, so I get in the shower, and try again next day.

I don't beat myself up anymore about hitting targets.

Apparently, Obree would go off up the road to train, and if he didn't feel like it, he'd turn round and go home. Your head has to be right to really hurt yourself.
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And probably the former fastest British Vegan 10, 25 and 50 mile TT rider. Probably.
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Re: I heard turbo trainers cause massive headtube stress

Postby Herbsman » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:29 pm

[quote="JohnBarleycorn"]Your head has to be right to really hurt yourself.
So true
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