strength targets

[Mary]

Neilly tells me that women's strength goals are probably ten percent less than mens, so I will have to do the maths yuck! to get the goals sorted. I should point out that when I do squats I use one of those machines where the bar slides down at a slight angle, which makes it easier. I have a slight phobia about a completely loose bar when it comes to squats, though I think I should be okay actually, and will tell you when I squat eighty on a completely loose bar!

My shoulders are quite good, which no doubt helps with squats, but my lower back is still a little weak - and I know it sounds like an excuse, but I still blame Seamus! He was a massive baby (just short of nine pound, and so long that the first thing the midwife said when she saw him was "Jesus Christ, it looks like she has given birth to a toddler." ) If I could just cut a little bit, and lose the flabby wobbly bit around my belly, I would look fine. Not that I look awful, just I am not a warrior princess yet!

[Frostfire]

Hi Mary, I'd highly encourage you to give squats with the free bar a try. It will work all those little muscles that keep your balance as well as the primary muscles (or so I understand). If you are scared, make sure you have a spotter there the first time and use just the bar to get your form down without loosing your balance! 80 kg is great! Keep up the good work!

Billy, the bar on squats shouldn't be hurting your shoulders (from what I know) , even boney ones. I'd suggest trying to reposition it a little. And I must say I'm no expert and I probably don't know exactly what is going on, but maybe try it without the little foam thing and try to rest the bar just above you shoulder blades (or there abouts!). Maybe others on this board can post more about where to properly position the bar, I'm still way to new at it myself to be offering too much advice , but I definatly think squats are worth figuring out!

[Mary]

Squats are definitely my favourite weight excercise. You feel all triumphant when you stand upright, it gets your heart thumping, and you can feel it all over. Okay, so you go purple, and look like you are about to give birth, but who cares!

[JP]

because deadlift is easier than squat for mortals.

Eh? Am I immortal then, or just weird? I love squats - deadlifts I am more nervey about! Mind you, I haven't been doing them long.

well, if you think about it, squats and deadlifts are essentially same kind of movement, just the bar placement is different. Both rely heavily on quad, ham, hip and glute power not to mention strong lower back.

The only reason why squats are easier for a beginner is that it allows so much more cheating - not saying this in the negative way, everyone has been there at some point of their life. Cheating in squats means not going deep down enough to the point where your thighs are parallel to the floor.

As an example in my gym i see dozens of people squatting. So far i have only seen ONE person going deep enough for the squat to be a proper one. Thats a very low percentage. Almost the same goes with bench pressing when many people don't touch their chest in the bottom position.

Deadlift is a good lift because on the surface of it all it's very simple, and it's pretty impossible to cheat in deadlifts, because everyone knows deadlift is ok only when you are standing up straight with the weight. Thats why i was originally suspicious of Oaks squat as well (sorry mate!) - but then it turns out that it is his upper body and lower arm strength why he is weaker with deads than squats. It's very rare to hear of such things. Of course you Mary are in different situation if you just haven't done deadlifts much at all.

Competetive powerlifters don't even bother doing deadlifts that often, because by doing heavy squats (and things like good mornings) they are at the same time getting their deadlifts up.

[Mary]

I only started doing deadlifts this year, because Neil and I were trying to rationalise our time at the gym and streamline the excercises a bit. Neil spots for me, and he never ever lets me cheat! (The bastard. ) If I do he lets me know about it in no uncertain terms. So it could just be that I haven't been doing deadlift long enough. Also, this year has been a hard time for me to learn new techniques, since Neil has been so unwell, and he is, as I have said elsewhere, my Mr Motivator.

I reckon the psychological prop of using a safety machine has helped me get the confidence to do squats properly, whereas I find it harder with a loose bar. Having said which I am going to take the advice above, and start squatting with a loose bar, as I imagine I will benefit a lot more from that.

Also, reckon I shall go down a weight or so till I am used to the loose bar, and back to where I was before everything went pearshaped this year!

Now, not meaning to sound sycophantic or anything, but I had pretty much decided to do Joni's routine. Reckon that'll keep me feeling like I am achieving something! Just have to eat enough now, that's all.

[Blaz]

I'm 87 kg now, and I think I am strong, but now I'm starting to hesitate... (just kidding)

Squats: no problem, I can do around 6-8 reps (for 1 rep I can do 250 kg, so that would be 2.9 X BM), although not full-range of motion (I always do them to vertical position), and on Smith Machine (in our gym we don't have a rod for free squats). So I guess my result does not count... Leg press, I can lift 250 kg with one leg, for (better?) comparison.

Deadlift and front squat: I don't do such exercises.

Overhead press: never tried this, but I will and report too! You sit upwards there, am I correct?

Bench press: managed to lift 110 kg (with a spotter watching over, of course). that's not 130 kg (I never will, because I don't like bench press - am doing it once/2 months).

Dips: yes.

What are chins?

My own goals are: leg extension 130kg (1.5 BM) with one leg (90 kg presently, full range of motion), rowing 105 kg (1.2 BM, now 85 kg), biceps curl machine 60 kg one arm (now 35 kg).

My problem is I have too strong calves for any machine in our gym (I was able to do 15 reps with stupid maximum 60 kg on sitting calves machine years ago, and I was trying standing way, but I almost broke my back and shoulders)... any suggestions ? Blaz

[JP]

So I guess my result does not count... Leg press, I can lift 250 kg with one leg, for (better?) comparison.

sorry, doesn't count Free weight squats are suprisingly hard, i was repping 400kg on leg press when i started doing squats with 95-100kg. They just don't compare at all.

Deadlift and front squat: I don't do such exercises.

you should mate. They are golden!

Overhead press: never tried this, but I will and report too! You sit upwards there, am I correct?

Stand up, take the barbell, lower it on the top of your chest so that it is touching and not moving and push it up overhead from there without using your legs to drive it up and get your arms straight.

Bench press: managed to lift 110 kg (with a spotter watching over, of course). that's not 130 kg (I never will, because I don't like bench press - am doing it once/2 months).

is that a barbell free weight bench press, not a smith machine or a machine bench press?

Dips: yes.

You can do a dip with ADDITIONAL about 60kg wrapped on your dip belt?

This is the movement:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Pec ... stDip.html

What are chins?

Pulling yourself up in a chinning bar.

here:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Lat ... hinup.html

My own goals are: leg extension 130kg (1.5 BM) with one leg (90 kg presently, full range of motion), rowing 105 kg (1.2 BM, now 85 kg), biceps curl machine 60 kg one arm (now 35 kg).

if strength is your goal, try to get away from the machines mate. They make you weak and prone to injury.

My problem is I have too strong calves for any machine in our gym (I was able to do 15 reps with stupid maximum 60 kg on sitting calves machine years ago, and I was trying standing way, but I almost broke my back and shoulders)... any suggestions ? Blaz

yeah, the calf machines pretty much never have enough weight unless you have just started. I don't train calves specifically because there is no way to do so. Calves get enough attention from deadlifts, power cleans, farmers walks and such like for me.

Pushing a car around would be great for calves

[Blaz]

Thanks JP.

Overhead press: how do you get the barbell to the top of your chest (from the floor)

Of course I do standard free weight bench press. I like doing with free weights, but you can also cheat a lot there (so comparison can be questionable); I saw people doing weird bench presses or anything else. Myself, I do presses correctly.

You can do a dip with ADDITIONAL about 60kg wrapped on your dip belt?

No, sorry... mistaken the exercise! I am not close to English gym terminology. So I have to get someone that is hanging on me?

Chins: no, I can only make 5 chins using my own weight! That's bad, isn't it?

But I see you people here lift really well... good to know what my lacking movements are.

Blaz

[JP]

Don't get me wrong mate, you are lifting well and with proper training and good determination it's anybodys guess how strong you might become! Just try to get away from the machines and start doing real lifts

Overhead press: how do you get the barbell to the top of your chest (from the floor)

either have it a squat rack (which you probably don't have in your gym) or power clean it off the floor to your chest. Powercleaning should be much easier than overhead pressing so you should be able to powerclean your overhead press weight. But if you have never done cleans before it might be worth it to practise the movement witha bit lighter weight first as it is very techincal one.

I couldn't find the exercise now from the web, but here's a hang clean:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Oly ... Clean.html
could also work.

Of course I do standard free weight bench press. I like doing with free weights, but you can also cheat a lot there (so comparison can be questionable); I saw people doing weird bench presses or anything else. Myself, I do presses correctly.

good. Well it's a really good lift then, much higher than mine.

The comparison should not be questionable if everyone just agrees to only report the lifts which are done with full range of motion and without cheating. Just have to trust in the internet where we can't see eachothers lifts.

Usually people cheat by not touching their chest, but only let the barbell travel up to couple of centimetres off the chest and start pushing it up already. In powerlifting competitions the barbell has to PAUSE on your chest touching it for a second and only when the referee shouts "press!" can you start pressing.

Chins: no, I can only make 5 chins using my own weight! That's bad, isn't it?

no such thing than bad i think. It's bad if it is 5 still next autumn Progression is the only thing i am interested in because we all start from different strength levels.

[ctchrinthry]

Hm. I was happy just to be free squatting and SLDLing more than my weight. That's 220lb and 200lb for 190lb me. I bench 265 but that's on a machine so i can't say how it correlates.

Right now i'm just getting my exercise and eating when i'm hungry and seeing what happens. I'd like to hit those goals, but i don't see it happening for me anytime really soon. Some of my lifts have not changed in quite awhile.

[prenna]

Since I've kinda started lifting now I'll mention my strength goals. They are quite simple:

To be able to do a full sandbag workout with 100kg bag

To be able to close a #2 gripper


A couple of years training and I should be able to do both.

[JP]

I'd like to hit those goals, but i don't see it happening for me anytime really soon. Some of my lifts have not changed in quite awhile.

Those goals should be achivable by most, i'm sure you would too. But it would require strength focused training though. It's not going to be easy, but i don't think it's supposed to be

To be able to do a full sandbag workout with 100kg bag

To be able to close a #2 gripper

A couple of years training and I should be able to do both.

You could do both later this year if you set your heart to it

Having said that, 100kg sandbag work will be BRUTAL

[prenna]

Having said that, 100kg sandbag work will be BRUTAL

Yeah, but as we both proved on Saturday evening, we're hardcore so we'd be able to manage it

[ctchrinthry]

[

Those goals should be achivable by most, i'm sure you would too. But it would require strength focused training though. It's not going to be easy, but i don't think it's supposed to be

When you say "strength focused training" do you mean that i'd have to somewhat deemphasize cardio?

I am making considerable gains on my lower body lifts, and i do feel that i'm getting stronger in some ways. I had to move a 100 pound plate at the gym and i was originally cowed by having to do that, until i relized that picking up a 100lb plate wasn't really that big of a deal, the ease of moving it was a revelaion! That was pretty cool. In fact, everything's going pretty well except curl and bench, ie, the ones people ask about.

dave

[JP]

When you say "strength focused training" do you mean that i'd have to somewhat deemphasize cardio?

cardio is ok, in fact i should be doing more cardio so i would be in better shape to do more weight training

What i mean is the routine, exercise selection and training style. Check out Ryans log for instance, or my new one. Or here in this section there has been a few routines posted which suit strength training very well.

In a nutshell strength focused training would be more abbreviated than typical bodybuilding routine, would have less, if at all, isolation work, would only use free weights, keep reps low, and avoid failure. Each of those "rules" have exeptions though, for instance volume can sometimes be very high if it is cycled, isolation work can be used to deal with weaknesses and so on.

Personally i favour strength style of training because I have put on a good deal of muscle mass training that way and gained strength, whereas when i was training bodybuilding style I got bigger alright, but the strength gains were slow when i now look at it. So now i'm getting best of both worlds