losing fat without losing strength

[JP]

So, different schools of thought on this one.

some say slow and steady fat loss (& as much as possible muscle gain) will show smallest strength loss

some say keep the fat loss fast and short to minimise strength loss

any opinions?

still tempted to lose a bit more fat but comps in 8 weeks time tell me not to take my eye off the ball...

[baldy]

take it to VBB
I have no idea, what ever I do seems to result in me losing strength.

As you have 8 weeks and from my experience strength peaks with 4-6 week taper. Nail max weight loss for 2 week. Then 6 weeks build up being careful to not over eat, maybe even carb cycling stuff like devils play thing did, with just carbs for training days, protein for recovery?

Are you cutting weight to hit a weight class or just for health. Cos I doubt carb cycling and losing too much weight is the healthiest thing.

[SpugFab]

A lot of these rapid fat loss strategies look to fat burners to give them a kick. I don't think I've ever seen any vegan ones though, they're usually gelatine caps? Anyone aware of any?

[Talyn]

Caffeine can be useful for blunting appetite. But nothing makes up for willpower.

JP: I'd say unless you have to meet a certain weight criteria, to just wait until after your comp. You might lose strength, you might not, why take the risk?

I'm down now around 6kg in ~7 weeks. Based on how I measure my strength (1 rep max), I'm down no more than 5% on all my lifts, which is good. Main thing that is affected is endurance, which will be remedied when I start eating carbs again. But then again I have no events coming up that require me to be in top condition.

Edit: ...and to address your original question, go with whatever method is the best for you to adhere to. Long and steady if you have the willpower, fast and hard if you don't. It's always going to be different for everybody.

[ninearms]

I'd do short and hard, but probably not until after the comp. Treat it as you would if you wanted to focus on your squat for a while - put most of your energy into that and maintain everything else. Cut the volume but keep the intensity high. When you're done move onto something else.

In the words of Dan John:

Fat loss is not a long-term process. Sorry, I used to believe that one cut fat by long involved brilliant calorie cutting and cardio, but the evidence from the Velocity Diet can’t be ignored. Fat Loss demands total focus. It can’t be done in conjunction with your county basketball tournament and a Strongman contest. You have to be single focused. And, please, don’t email me that the Velocity Diet is hard. I know that. My single clearest memory is calling my brother and asking him how to survive one more night. He told me to quit the diet the next day, but tonight I would hang in there. I went to bed thinking of roast chicken, but I woke up the next day and was back on track.

Fat loss is a war. There are no little steps. Oh sure, I support a group here on campus that does “baby steps” towards their goals. I appreciate the idea. I appreciate the small life changes they are making. But, if you want fat loss you must take the scorched earth philosophy. When you take the baby step from Twinkies to Low Carb Bagels, your body still acts “fat.” Give fat loss its 28 Days. Then move on to the rest of your goals.

Oh, and eat less carbs.

[JP]

if i do a weight loss diet i would still be eating like 3500 calories a day? But at the same time upping my protein intake - so in that sense the amount of carbs would drop by default.

i would like that kind of short and brutal appraoch. being a comp junkie i seem to be competing every month or so (just had to fight all temptations not to do one this sunday!), so i wouldnt have 28 days to spare...

besides losing 3kg of fat cant take 28 days!

Fat burners will be nailed too, maybe.

damn i am non committal...

i like strength too much and panic at the signs of any loss of it I am weak enough in my game as it is!

i would like the short burst of fat loss the most, get it nailed and over with.

[Mellos]

I dunno, I´d do the AD as always.

DP had a PL comp last year at ~ 100 Kg bw (dehydrated) and then went straight to AD for 4 months i think to compete in bodybuilding.
So at the pl comp his best deadlift was 230 Kg and this is what he did 5 weeks before the bodybuilding comp at ..somewhere between 84 and 90 kg bw I´d say (after ~3 months of AD):

I´d say he didn´t lose that much strength.

[Devil's Plaything]

Hey, I was at only 85k when the vid was shot. But sadly it's absolutely untrue that I didn't lose any strength The only Exercise I could maintain almost all my strength in was the deadlift. Pressing strength was completely gone (had difficulties even benching 90k) and squats didn't do so well either.
But I still think the anabolic diet might be one of the best ways of preserving strength and muscle while cutting, if you don't diet down until you're really ripped Using Creatine might also help.
Also it depends a bit on your body type and individual factors, I guess. I'm always losing tons of strength when cutting, but the german Strongman Baboumian told me he hardly lost any stength while preparig for a BB show...

[joelk]

I definately think dieting down slowly is the way to go. It is the way I have always done so when competing in bodybuilding shows while being the type of person who needs the ego boost of always lifting heavy
Keeping your protein intake high enough and slowly increasing the amount of aerobic work you do should mean you don't have to reduce your food intake so low that you start losing muscle mass.
I always found I was at my strongest when I was close to competition time.

[SpugFab]

Squat and pressing strength seem to dip more than deadlift if I lose weight too. Not sure why, maybe something to do with the mechanics of the lifts.

Not that familiar with the anabolic diet, but for people who go high-protein lower calories in general, how does that look on a vegan diet?

Did you go mainly with shakes and supplements of with whole foods?

[joelk]

Not that familiar with the anabolic diet, but for people who go high-protein lower calories in general, how does that look on a vegan diet?

Did you go mainly with shakes and supplements of with whole foods?

In my case when I was dieting for comps (following a version of the anabolic/keto diet with refeeds every 8 or 9 days) I would keep it mostly wholefoods, having one protein shake a day and some essential amino acids around training. It just meant having to omit legumes for the most part and use a lot of tofu, tempeh, seitan and certain vegan pre made things like tvp based mince etc as the main protein sources. Some greens, sprouts and a variety of fat sources would make up the rest of the diet. Not the most healthy way to eat but it was only for a couple of months at the most.

[Devil's Plaything]

I'm currently on the AD and I just had an amazig 1,5 Days of refeeding with pizza, chocolates, ice cream, cookies...
Weekdays you usually wanna eat stuff like tofu, tempeh, tofu saussages low on carbs, lupine seeds (if available to you) and some lc nuts (almonds, brazil nuts etc.). Add oils like olive, palm and coconut (make sure that it's ethically farmed though!) 'cause you're gonna need lots of saturated and monounsaturated fats to get the full effect of the diet - high test levels (you'll feel it, trust me ). Also you souldn't avoid lc vegetables like mushrooms, broccoli, spinach, aspargus and salads. An additional protein shake with coconut oil once in a while can't hurt you either

[JP]

you guys are fucking nuts!

i am nailing burgers and ice creams!

no way i would have the dedication to be a bodybuilder. but shaving couple more kg of fat is not yet bodybuilding right

[Rochellita]

DP can you post more details of the diet please, like what you'd eat in week including quantities? I think it'd be useful for aspiring BB's because all the Anabolid Diet info out there in the web is very heavily based on animal products, it's good to see the vegan alternatives when you Google 'Anabolic Diet'.

[vegimator]

DP can you post more details of the diet please, like what you'd eat in week including quantities? I think it'd be useful for aspiring BB's because all the Anabolid Diet info out there in the web is very heavily based on animal products, it's good to see the vegan alternatives when you Google 'Anabolic Diet'.

DP wrote a guide on the german vegan strength forums. Here it is via google translate -
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... ng-t24.htm

It involves a lot of tofu, seitan, veggies, nuts, oils, soy or lupin based meats/milks and some protein powder.