highland games strength standards

[Lordmuppet]

So I'd really like to do highland games one day but currently too small and weak. Getting bigger now though so curious at what point strength wise it is something that would be viable.

Did some googling and found this http://www.nacactfca.org/Web%20files%20from%20PR/Babbitt%20-%20Revolutions%20in%20Training%20for%20the%20Throwing%20Events.pdfa t

for throwing

That suggests that when i get to 100kg bw I should be able to squat 242kg and bench about 200kg.

current stats are 76kg bw and (when tested six months back) a 148kg squat and 82kg bench.

Thoughts?

I would aim for strongman but at 5 foot 5 and a half I'm too short I reckon.

Would stick with general plan of getting bigger until 100kg and then switch to highland training.

[JP]

highland games are awesome fun!

I have only done two competitions in germany, but i would suspect that similar kind of things would apply in scotland...

there is a newcomers/beginners category where the weights are smaller, distances and heights lower and the caber shorter etc. for that the required numbers would not be anywhere near that. There were guys there who would not be able to squat what you do. Bench is fucking meaningless, what matters are explosive lifts and athletic abilities. What is your clean, what is your snatch, etc etc, much more important.

And squat is important for anything anyway

think about it, its about throwing, carrying, tossing, putting, swinging, and sometimes straight up lifting. Bench doesnt come to it, never.

So as a comparison, i went to the beginners class, it was a team comp, but i nailed maximum points in almost all events, so in that sense my strength levels were too high for it. Now I am planning to go to the Open category comp, where i shall get royally owned, but thats nothing new for me

[ninearms]

I disagree on the bench issue. Throwers train the shit out of the bench press. Bench, power clean, power snatch, squat are the staples of throwing, aside from actually throwing.

[baldy]

That suggests that when i get to 100kg bw I should be able to squat 242kg and bench about 200kg.

current stats are 76kg bw and (when tested six months back) a 148kg squat and 82kg bench.

Thoughts?

Crackpipe, 242kg squats and 200kg are very elite numbers, I don't want to say you wont ever reach these number, but .... crackpipe.
IMO not good goals because they are so far off.

If you want to do a strongman comp find a first timers one to do, your probably strong enough already to do it. Long term u90 strongman probably decent goal.
No idea about highland games, but think lots of its technique? Sure you can already nail one just for fun.

For years there has been trash talk on VF about getting a few folks to do a highland games. I would be keen (to trash talk about it).

[Lordmuppet]

thanks for the replies guys

Baldy: Like I said I had assumed I'd be too short for strongman but maybe this isn't true of the u90 strongman comps? As for the numbers being crackpipe for me I totally agree
JP: yeah thanks i'll look out for beginners one
Ninearms: what would you think for bench numbers then?

[Mellos]

I only know about strongman in Germany, not much about highland games, neither about what the sport is like in Britain.
But I'd suggest the following: just get freakishly strong and explosive!
The bench is mainly a tricep movement just like the press or jerk (the bench with some lat involvement, the rest with more shoulder strength required), so I'd say just get good at all of them/strong from all angles. More exercises = more variation = more weapons in your arsenal in the war against weakness.

Concerning numbers I really wouldn't know. In Germany for strongman you should be able to deadlift and squat 200 kilos or more for our newcomer comps but there isn't a whole lot of strength sports comps in Germany and we ain't got a real light weight category, so I guess in Britain you could start earlier. Also I suppose that highland games are more about speed and explosiveness where strongman is more about strength and lifting (obviously).
You should just get as strong and fast as you can anyway. Btw I would rather do speed squats and speed deadlifts for speed strength development than cleans because the first pull of a clean is a controlled movement, which is very specific to the sport of olympic lifting but not to any other. Then again, as before, just get strong and fast overall and you'll succeed.

As you are getting better through gym training why not check out some highland games facility in your area? You could go there like once a month, train with the guys and have fun. They'll tell you what you need to know and be happy to help you with your training. Should be fun to do what you eventually want to do, too. Even I have a highland games club in my (more or less) immediate neighbourhood, so you should be able to find something.

Lastly, I would support baldy's statement about setting closer goals for yourself because they will motivate you in every single training to get there as fast as possible but I'd also say don't stop dreaming. Even beasts like Stan Efferding or Chuck Vogelpohl remember when they were still missing 60 kilos on the bench press and now they are both world record holders in the bigger weight classes. You gotta start somewhere, just make sure that you are always getting better at something.

[Mellos]

As for numbers, they may not even be that important for gym lifts. Just get better.
Germany's current strongest man has a max deadlift of 280 kg whereas Patrik (placed third) deadlifted 330 kg in competition. There are so many factors to strongman and probably more to the highland games, so don't get too caught up in numbers. You will find out what you need to do when you try the different events in training.

[Lordmuppet]

Thanks Mellos that's solid advice.

Any ideas on the height issue for strongman?

[ninearms]

Ninearms: what would you think for bench numbers then?

I think you're overthinking it. Highland Games is a throwing sport, and throwers need to be strong, but being strong doesn't make you a good thrower. Throwers need to throw. Most of your training time should be spent practising your sport, the rest getting strong enough to do your sport. That means you need to be smart about your lifting and keep things down to the essentials: snatch, clean, jerk, press, squat (in order to drive up the Olympic lifts), run some hills. That's it.

This bit is wrong though:

the first pull of a clean is a controlled movement, which is very specific to the sport of olympic lifting but not to any other.

Throwing is about accelerating the weight throughout the movement, exactly like weightlifting. Plus a controlled first pull is really only a cue for beginner lifters to stop them losing position. Once you have the motor skills to get the bar to the hip without losing position it really doesn't make much difference how fast the first pull is as long as the bar accelerates throughout the lift.

To answer your original question though, a discus thrower who used to train at Woking used to come in and power clean or power snatch, quarter squat, and then bench. That was it. I spotted him benching 180kg for triples once, and he was English weightlifting champion even though he didn't even train for it.

You might find this interesting: http://danjohn.net/thinking-throwing-through/

In fact, reading Dan John in general will help seeing as he's a Highland Games athlete, weightlifter and discus thrower.

[Lordmuppet]

thanks yeah Dan John was at the back of my mind while writing the original post i think.

No one seems to told me if I'm right that you have to be tall for strongman yet (edited to say i googled it)

[Mellos]

Considering hight I can tell you that (most likely) it is impossible for you to become the world's strongest man. However, in the 90 kg class you could do quite some damage. In a given weight class the smaller athlete may have an advantage over the taller, if both are about equally lean. The lower the bodyweight, the lower the optimal size for maximum strength at this bodyweight. That's why Patrik (Baboumian) could become Germany's strongest -105 for 5 years but has a harder time in the open weight class (he's still a fucking savage, don't get me wrong. just saying that it's harder in the open class for someone who is small). In the end, you will just have to get as strong as you can and find out. Have fun doing it and have fun competing. There aren't that many short strongmen around, so there's not that much data to go by.

@ Ninearms: The first pull may be accelerated but it's not a phase of maximal acceleration. You just break inertia, get some but not maximal speed going and as soon as you pass the knees you have at it, pop your hips and exert maximal force in the second pull. On a speed deadlift however, you must pull as hard as you can from the start and I believe that this would be better for general speed development.

[baldy]

From the strongman side your first goal is to do a beginners comp. They are generally lighter weights than u90.
These are the events from the last beginners comp I can find.

Event 1:
Log 85kg FTOH
Event 2: Car Deadlift for Reps
Event 3: Loading Medley Barrels 90kg and 100kg and sandbags 100kg from 3metres to 50inch
Event 4: Yoke 240kg 20 metres (10 metres drop & Turn)
Event 5: 110kg stone over yoke for reps 75 seconds

To realistically do the comp, I think you need to be at a level you can get a rep in most of the events. Don't over think the height thing, shorter limbs are an asset in powerlifting and even out in strongman, pickup and 18'' deadlifts should be easier cos you have less distance to travel. Only loading on to high platforms is it really and issue, lots of shorter guys get around that by being very explosive.

[JP]

yes yes sure bench is another lift to be nailed, but what i was reacting to is this constant focus on the bench even when you take something as explosive as highland games (where many of the throws are upwards, some towards behind you, and not just like discus or shot, making it even closer to weightlifting moves). Its misleading to speak about big bench numbers, but not talk about power cleans for instance.

Who would you rather take to your highland games team, a champion weightlifter, or champion powerlifter

[ninearms]

Who would you rather take to your highland games team, a champion weightlifter, or champion powerlifter

A thrower!

[Mellos]

Who would you rather take to your highland games team, a champion weightlifter, or champion powerlifter

A thrower!

Or a strongman, think of Sigmarsson