Pavel Tsatsouline on self-esteem

[xzebrasx]

Just a short quote by Pavel that I found pretty spot-on:

You may never admit it in public, but you know that the number one reason you are bodybuilding is to improve your self-esteem. Face the music: no amount of meat will give you true confidence. The following Internet post caught my eye: "I've found something remarkable about my [strenght] training. I'm a lot more confident than I was as [just] a bodybuilder. When all I cared about was getting my muscles bigger and bigger, I still had horrible self-esteem problems. With strenght training, though... I feel myself getting stronger, and it's had a profound impact on how I see myself." Strenght gives confidence that does not go away when your muscles shrink after a missed meal.

Admittedly, this passage is in no way new or special, but I think it's quite in accord with what a lot of people feel. Boosting self-esteem through getting stronger may or may not be the reason why you're doing it (for me it's: 1. fun, 2. trying to be as good an example of a vegan as I can, 3. self-esteem), but, in my humble opinion, strenght training is definitely a lot more fulfilling (in many ways) than the "modern generation, catty beauty queen" bodybuilding, i.e. lifting weights PURELY for cosmetic reasons.

Just my thoughs, anyway. No offence to anybody.

[Fallen_Horse]

Solid post.

[Centinal]

Totally agree. A lot of self worth can come from strength training or any other sport that is not based on aesthetics.

Bodybuilding can exacerbate a individuals pre-existing problem with body image.

[XkillerX]

generalisation. speak for yourselves.

some people find BB fun. others find PL fun. and then i find fighting the most fun. it's different for everybody.

[beforewisdom]

Dr. Albert Ellis invented cognitive therapy back in the 1950s. He was voted by the American Psychological Association as the second most influential psychologist of all time. The first was Sigmund Freud. Dr. Ellis lived until the age of 93, writing books and seeing clients all the way until his last days.

Dr. Elllis considered self esteem to be an irrational and impractical concept that generates a lot of needless misery for people. If you really want to turn the way you look at things upside down research his concept of "Universal Self Acceptance".

A good book on this concept is "Overcoming The Rating Game" by Paul Hauck.

[xzebrasx]

generalisation. speak for yourselves.

some people find BB fun. others find PL fun. and then i find fighting the most fun. it's different for everybody.

Ah, that's exactly what you would expect to hear from an ex-PLer.

Dr. Albert Ellis invented cognitive therapy back in the 1950s. He was voted by the American Psychological Association as the second most influential psychologist of all time. The first was Sigmund Freud. Dr. Ellis lived until the age of 93, writing books and seeing clients all the way until his last days.

Dr. Elllis considered self esteem to be an irrational and impractical concept that generates a lot of needless misery for people. If you really want to turn the way you look at things upside down research his concept of "Universal Self Acceptance".

A good book on this concept is "Overcoming The Rating Game" by Paul Hauck.

I'll check that out when I've got the time, beforewisdom, thanks.

But I really don't see why feeling happy about your achievements is a bad thing, which causes "a lot of needless misery"? Don't we all start to value ourselves a little more when we achieve certain things that are important to us? That may be realted to work, personal relationships, hobbies, whatever. If that wasn't the case, I'd probably be perfectly content with sitting in front of the tube eating hot-dog's most of the days. That's, of course, not to say that while you haven't reached your goals you're worthless, but that by getting closer to your goals you just mete out some extra points to yourself for the accomplishments.

I hope that makes sense.

[XkillerX]

Ah, that's exactly what you would expect to hear from an ex-PLer.

and that's exactly where you miss the entire point. it was never about PL, BB or MA. it's about FUN FUN FUN. getting strong is fun. having fights is fun. posing in front of the mirror at the end of a hard day and checking your muscles and wounds is fun as well

as for self-acheivment and self esteem, most human beings rank them above anything else. which is why they're willing to give up everything for a specific career, etc.

somewhere along the line people tend to forget that there was a time when life was actually FUN and end up being miserable bastards.

[xzebrasx]

That was a joke, killer.

[beforewisdom]

Dr. Elllis considered self esteem to be an irrational and impractical concept that generates a lot of needless misery for people. If you really want to turn the way you look at things upside down research his concept of "Universal Self Acceptance".

A good book on this concept is "Overcoming The Rating Game" by Paul Hauck.

I'll check that out when I've got the time, beforewisdom, thanks.

But I really don't see why feeling happy about your achievements is a bad thing

It isn't. It is also not self-esteem. Self esteem is the assigning of value ( good or bad ) to your person.

Don't we all start to value ourselves a little more when we achieve certain things that are important to us? That may be realted to work, personal relationships, hobbies, whatever. If that wasn't the case, I'd probably be perfectly content with sitting in front of the tube eating hot-dog's most of the days.

That is a common misconception.

People have many other sources of motivation for doing things, even hard things, other than proving themselves to others or themselves.

It is human nature to be curious, inquisitive, and industrious. People who do only the "bare minimum" often ( not always ) have problems which short circuit those natural drives.

Taking self esteem out of the equation often leads to people doing more.

Fear of being seen as being of less worth is a frequent cause of procrastination and other types of avoidance.

[xzebrasx]

Good points, bw, I'll think about that.