Striking Power

[prenna]

I only skimmed this thread so apologies if I'm repeating something already mentioned. Punching with resistance bands is good for power. I've used bicycle inner tubes as a cheap way of doing this. The resistance is given down the right lines to improve power and speed.

[ronh]

it really is mostly technique. i recently boxed a guy who out weighted me by 70 pounds in muscle and won. he didn't know how to throw a punch but i landed one right cross to his chin and he quit. it is all in your hips and shoulders. if you rotate your body at just the right moment you won't need to rely on just pure strength as much. but i do incorporate explosive push ups where i push so my hands come off the ground. that seems to help.

I just wanted to concur with no other way, that stance and technique go along way. If you have a good rooted stance and know how to transfer power from legs through hip movement into your strike you will be doing a world of good for your strike.

I notice that when doing bag work at the gym compared to at school getting that correct stance with hip turn and extension of arm is always superior to someone that just has lots of muscle but no technique.

I'm sure I don't need to say it because I think all of us as martial artist it's one of the first things we learn is proper stance and technique but wanted to concur with the above statement.

[vegan_transboy]

tempehmomma,

Did you catch Fight Science on the National Geographic Channel? The show had a bunch of scientist using the very latest in technology to prove what was myth and reality as far as strikes and kicks as well as weapons. It was very informative. For example, for a hand strike, the only fighting style that generated 1000+ lbs of pressure was the common boxing right jab. The other martial artists using their own particular style couldn't generate that much force. Who would've thought.

Another one was the front knee kick as used in Muay Thai. It was rated as super deadly to the human body. When they release this on DVD it's worth owning in my opinion. They'll probably repeat this so check their website for times.

Did it compare the Tiger Claw, because I use that instead of a close fisted right jab, I use it the same way with the same movement/body mechanics as a boxing right jab. I find its safer for the hands, you won't break your knuckles. So I would imagine it is just as strong but safer.

[gokarate]

I've heard that plyometric exercises are good for developing 'explosive' power, whatever that means in reality!? The plymometric press up would appear to be a good one.

Having said that, it still only targets the pecs, triceps etc. With a punch, I suppose you really need to develop the ability to use the whole body and build up the speed. Not sure what would be better than good old bag work.

How 'powerful' a punch is depends on the speed (most important as the energy of a punch is proportional to the square of the velocity) and the effective mass of the striking weapon (i.e. fist). The effective mass is the 'weight' you're able to put behind your punch.

[Wobbly Lifter]

I've heard that plyometric exercises are good for developing 'explosive' power, whatever that means in reality!? The plymometric press up would appear to be a good one.

Plyometrics, as well as Olympic Lifting, develops 'explosive' power. I suppose 'explosive' is a bit of an analogy but a good one. Think of the difference between standing up and jumping jump as high as you can. standing is a slow exertion of force, and can be easily stopped at anytime. With a jump the force is exerted very quickly, and it's difficult to stop mid way. A good punch then should have 'explosive' power.

I've seen a few people here give formulas for power, but I didn't notice the right one yet. Power=Energy/Time.Watt is a common measurement of power, or example 60 Watt light bulbs use 60 Joules(a measure of energy) per second.

Looking at martial arts the impotents formula to kept in mind is:
Energy=(0.5)*Mass*Velocity*Velocity
Basically the faster the punch and the more mass put into it the more energy is in it. The faster the deceleration on impact(i.e a solid vs glancing blow) the faster the energy is transferred to the person being punched, thus the punch is more powerful. A punch is a classic inelastic collision. The energy of a punch is transferred in part to the person being punched(some is absorbed by the body and of course any kinetic energy maintained by the puncher isn't transferred). The energy transferred to the victim moves them or is absorbed by the body, of course faces can't take things the way fists can, so the process leaves the victim worse off...

Having said that, it still only targets the pecs, triceps etc. With a punch, I suppose you really need to develop the ability to use the whole body and build up the speed. Not sure what would be better than good old bag work.

Other plyometric exercises can develop hip and leg power, which are very important for a hard strikes. Olympic Lifting develops total body power. It's becoming more common as cross trainer for a number of athletes, including some martial artists.[/quote]

[tempehmomma]

Could folks make post to this thread in a language the layperson can understand. I failed chemistry my junior year in high school and had to retake chem my senior year so I never toook physics.

Rotational Strength+Pwr Cleans+Pwr Snatches+Push Presses+Slegde Hammer Training+Knuckle Push-ups=Punching Power

[Wobbly Lifter]

I've actually been holding off on posting that for a while but after seeing so many give wrong accounts of what power is I decided I had to clear things up.

Anyways I don't know what your complaining about because you most certainly get it!

Rotational Strength+Pwr Cleans+Pwr Snatches+Push Presses+Slegde Hammer Training+Knuckle Push-ups=Punching Power

[Edison Carasio]

For punches, lat work like pull ups, lat pull down, and various lat rows will help punching. Shadowboxing with light weights in hand will work too. Don't forget core workouts too, like working the obliques. Since the power of a punch is a total body effort, a strong core helps rotate the body to get the full effect for the punch.

I'm sure there is no basis for this, but I target my triceps more than most people to help power up my hammer strikes and downward ridge hands. But this is just my own personal thing, not sure if it actually helps or not. Things like tricep pulldowns are the same motion as when you use a hammer strike, so it only makes sense to me.

[tempehmomma]

Full Contact Twist
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=M2VmDm58MMI

[IronRonin]

I train extensively and my FAVORITE way to work on my striking power, and one that I have felt the most results from...is underwater shadow boxing and punch/kick drills. I work the length of an olympic size pool (at my gym), back and forth, punching and kicking. It's @5ft5in of water all the way across so it's at a perfect height for me. The resistance is perfect and it helps to develop balance and footing as it's difficult to maintain underwater. It can be done stationary too, and I also like to hold the side of the pool with my arms stretched out front fully, and throw knees. Just make sure to keep your arms fully out stretched, so you don't accidentally knee the side of the pool.

[The Duke]

Looking at martial arts the impotents formula to kept in mind is: Energy=(0.5)*Mass*Velocity*Velocity

act

Yadda Yadda Yadda ...

Buut ...

Does it make any difference if the weapon is being accelerated at the moment of impact?

Instinct tells me yes, but i'm not sure I understand the full implication of V squared.

What I mean is does the V squared correlate to acceleration (as in per second per second when jumping out a plane).

Bottom line. If I job someone at 100mph and I was travelling at 100mph before the impact ... is that different to if I had jobbed them at 100mph following a constant acceleration from 80 mph over the previous couple of inches until I twatted them?

[IronRonin]

Looking at martial arts the impotents formula to kept in mind is: Energy=(0.5)*Mass*Velocity*Velocity

act

Yadda Yadda Yadda ...

Buut ...

Does it make any difference if the weapon is being accelerated at the moment of impact?

Instinct tells me yes, but i'm not sure I understand the full implication of V squared.

What I mean is does the V squared correlate to acceleration (as in per second per second when jumping out a plane).

Bottom line. If I job someone at 100mph and I was travelling at 100mph before the impact ... is that different to if I had jobbed them at 100mph following a constant acceleration from 80 mph over the previous couple of inches until I twatted them?

The answer is absolutely YES! Ideally when striking you want the moment of GREATEST acceleration to be just before the actual impact for maximum striking force and damage...and yes, overall your strike should be constantly increasing in acceleration until impact, says Bruce Lee and physics.

[The Duke]

Yes IronRoni, that is definately the received wisdom of Bruce, Ted Wong, and Teri Tom.

But, I want proof!!!!!!

Can you back it up with some worked equations that support the view?

[andyO]

Okay as an engineer this all got me thinking:

- Firstly, the whole velocity squared thing. What that tells you is that the energy of a moving object is directly proportional to the square of its velocity. So a set of knuckles moving at 20mph will have four times the energy of a set of knuckles moving at 10mph.
The velocity squared isn't the same as acceleration - acceleration is the rate of change of velocity with time or the differential of velocity with respect to time ( a = dv/dt). I cant be bothered writing out the proof, handily though you can read it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy

- Secondly, does it matter if the set of knuckles is accelerating when it impacts with the poor fella in front of it. In answer it really doesn't matter what happens to your hand before impact, all that matters is the amount of energy it has when it does impact. Put basically to stop the strike the energy in your hand is transferred to the struck person. Doesn't matter if it is gaining energy or losing energy at the point of impact, the energy it has at impact is what will be transferred.

Put another way which one of these cars would you prefer to be hit by?

1) Car A which in the 2 seconds before it hits you decelerates from 100mph to 70mph and hits you at 70mph.

2) Car B which in the 2 seconds before it hits you accelerates from 10mph to 50mph and hits you at 50mph.

Accelerating Car B is *gaining* energy while decelerating Car A is *losing* energy but at the point of impact car A has much more energy and will do you more damage.

I think what Bruce Lee et al are trying to get across in their quotes is that you have a finite amount of time to gain energy in your fist so if you keep accelerating it right up to impact you will have gained as much energy as you can in it. Focussing on accelerating right up to impact will probably help keep you focussed on punching 'through' the opponent rather than 'pulling' the punch at the point of impact as well.

I'm by no means a learned student of martial arts - but that is my take on the matter as an engineer. Hope it helps!

[The Duke]

Thanks for that reply AndyO.

I need to think about what you said and come back to you. Check back tomorrow!

Cheers.