Why and how did you get into martial arts?

[Rochellita]

Not a poll, just a 2-part question, considering that the board seems to have an overwhelming number of vegan martial artists. Do you do it for self-defence? Fitness? Aesthetic? Love of fighting/sparring?

I'm interested only in learning to defend myself effectively but I'm stumped as to what I should learn. I'm not into the whole grading, belt, master, sifu thing so that kind of art is definitely not for me.

This is the situation. The far-right BNP is on the rise in the UK, and I feel I should be out there, doing something, being part of the movement against them. Well, I was invited to a demonstration against the BNP recently, but turned down because I didn't want to get the ***t beaten out of me (I have no fighting or defense skills to speak of). So what should I learn to empower myself?

When you put yourself in situation like that, where you can can almost always expect a degree of violent confrontation, and where negotiation is not really and option- how could I be most effective?

If you've never been on a demonstration that has turned nasty, it'll be hard to relate to this sort of question, but they do happen and I'd like to be prepared in the future. Sometimes walking away is not possible.

Rochelle

[pandiriver]

originally I got into martial arts because a friend was all "oooh kendo is so amazing. you gotta try it". which I did and was hooked on that for a while. Then I realised the club was very much just doing it as a sport while I was trying for that zen thing with the perfect cut and all. Then I left that place... then I went to see the good people att the WT-school here in Malmoe show some of the Leung Ting Wing Tsun and the Escrima Concepts and I figured I'd try it out... and now I'm soooo hooked on it. I think it's partly because I am a control freak - control the opponent - he can't do nothing while I can hit him anywhere at anytime. great fun plus it's getting that perfect technique which is a thrill - had the same thing going when I was playing the guitar and the flute. on the bonus side I get from the two systems I practice now (escrima concept and the leung ting wing tsun) I feel I get the best self defence I can get - both to counter armed and unarmed foes. of course the grades are there - but they really don't matter so much, more of a way for the instructors to have any easier time teaching people I think. the thing about these two systems (I train in the organisation called The Alliance which has recently split from EWTO) is that unlike my encounter with kendo this is not done is a sportsy way - so we don't learn to strike so we get scores from judges and how to stick to rules, we learn a good solid way of practical self defence. Brutal - but effective.


anyhow - I'd really recommend checking out http://www.escrimaconcepts.co.uk/ (or for a video demonstration of basic escrima concept in a "real life" situation check http://wtmag.dk/FilmArkiv/unarmed%2Bpalm.wmv ) I find it to be a very solid system with the basic idea always being to be as safe as possible and dealing with opponents as fast and efficiently as possible (unlike some other FMA systems that know nothing of zonehitting but look darn great being performed). also I believe Master Steve (chief instructor of the system) does a lot of training seminars for police and other special forces around Europe so there must be something to it all.


the basic idea that seperates these two systems from other "self defence systems" is that ... well... a lot of other styles seems to have an attitude of "opponent does something, I counter that" (which could go on forever!) while here it is a lot of "pre emptive striking", more in the lines of "opponent is going to hit me - I better knock him down way before he can react". more offensive than your basic jujutsu and what have you. Personally I feel that is the way to go in a self defence situation (rule of the streets are "Kill or get killed") and it sadly enough seems to me that a huge percentage of systems and courses being marketed as self defence are practically useless - though they work just fine when you practice with a partner and tend to look quite nice. Of course with this more offensive look on self defence you could be getting into some problems with the police after the incident 'cause it often could look to bystanders that you actually were the one starting the whole fight and it ended with some guy lying down with broken bones and bleeding. To me that is an easy choise tho - I'd rather whack someone real good with my palmstick (ok it's a MagLite) and worry about whatever the legal system throws at me afterwards than try some fancy "oh I grab his wrist and do this and then I have seen my partner always kindly go down to the ground".



ok.. sorry about the long answer. sorry to hear you had to skip out on the demonstration... and what is BNP?

[pandiriver]

ok... one more.

I think it is important to remember the difference between martial arts and self defence. There are a lot of people who practice let's say thai boxing or who practice for UFC and are though as stone and win championship after championship - but that does not make them any good in a real life situtation. Inside the ring and outside is way different - no matter what all the MMA people say there are no fights on the streets that look anything like the ones you see in the octagon or whatever

:edit: dang, I just can't quit the thing a lot of people forget is that the best self defence is of course to get the heck out of the situation as fast as possible - running is sweet

[Rochellita]

great reply, thanks for that. Escrima looks interesting and I have heard the name before. Will look into if it taught here in Manchester.

BNP is the British National Party. This website below explains why the UK needs to fight against the BNP's fine, upstanding 'values'

http://www.stopthebnp.com/

If you do a search you'll get the offical BNP website- I just can't bring myself to post the link here...

Rochelle

[pandiriver]

well. escrima is basically translated to fencing. and there are quite a few different escrima/kali/arnis systems around. Some even look pretty I do however think this is the one that works best irl.

ok. I get the general idea of the BNP. we have a party here called NSF, I believe it is basically the same thing. Had a friend beaten up by some of them while protesting against it

[pandiriver]

I am sorry to say there seems to be no escrima concepts in Manchester. atleast no under the Alliance according to the official page. You might want to search for "latosa escrima" or EBMAS schools (they usually teach latosa escrima) though - this system is heavily based upon the latosa escrima system which is all good too

[Rochellita]

:edit: dang, I just can't quit the thing a lot of people forget is that the best self defence is of course to get the heck out of the situation as fast as possible - running is sweet

I agree, but sometimes though can't run. You may get into a situation where there is no way out except to fight, here, these BNP demos always seem to involve antifa's getting the hell beaten out of them. The BNP is full of big bullyboys- it's kinda like you make a choice- you go to one of these demos and you know it's not going to be a fluffy affair. You are right though, fighting should be the last resort.

R

[pandiriver]

ya... well this particular person was a member of the NSF party for a while - then we got some sense into his head and he came around to thinking straight. He is not so very popular with the right-wings here in Malmoe. and running.. well I meant - if you can knock one down and run away, why stick around to try to beat 4 more up - stupid to play macho

anyway. you might also want to check this site out, it is quite informative, although it has some strange ideas of what wing tsun is

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

[Rochellita]

. well I meant - if you can knock one down and run away, why stick around to try to beat 4 more up - stupid to play macho /

Y're totally right there! Thanks for the link.

R

[prenna]

If you are looking for pure "street effective" self defence (as opposed to martial arts) there is a free class every Tuesday night (6 till in Hulme that is specifically tailored to activists and the situations they encounter. The instructor of that class is the same person who teaches me so I can vouch for him wholeheartedly. These classes teach very simple effective techniques that work for the majority of people in the majority of situations.

I also have some videos you may like to take a look at by a guy called Tony Blauer who in my view is at the forefront of realistic self-defence.

As for martial arts that are useful to supplement your self defence work I'd suggest that Jeet Kune Do, Kali, and Muay Thai are the most naturally street effective arts (ie the one's that need the least tweaking to get them to work).

[pandiriver]

hmm.. most Kali systems I have seen have some strange ideas of what is a fast and powerful way to hit with your stick/hand/knife/spoon. and a very unsafe way of acting in general..

also a I have noticed a lot of these systems seem to focus a heck of a lot on the opponents weapon and not on knocking him out.. maybe I have just been checking the wrong system - the Kali system here in malmo uses short broomsticks for practicing so I dunno how they ever plan on learning to hit hard - they break if you strike another stick with a likkle bit of power

:edit: but they do tend to look good :/edit:

[pandiriver]

good solid system you might want to check out is Pencak Silat

[prenna]

hmm.. most Kali systems I have seen have some strange ideas of what is a fast and powerful way to hit with your stick/hand/knife/spoon. and a very unsafe way of acting in general..

Can you give an example?

also a I have noticed a lot of these systems seem to focus a heck of a lot on the opponents weapon and not on knocking him out..

There is a concept called "De-fanging the snake" which is central to Kali. Basically it mean that you destroy your opponents weapons, whether that be smashing his weapon hands or snapping their arms or whatever, before going in to finish your opponent. The reality of a real fight is that going straight for a knockout is unrealistic unless your are using a pre-emptive strike from the "lineup". By "De-fanging the snake" you are not only clearing a line for your own attack but you are also negating the possiblity of counter-attack and demoralising the enemy.

maybe I have just been checking the wrong system - the Kali system here in malmo uses short broomsticks for practicing so I dunno how they ever plan on learning to hit hard - they break if you strike another stick with a likkle bit of power

I know a lot of people, including myself, that use broomsticks cut in half (it's much cheaper than buying proper rattan sticks) as long as you tape them up properly you can go at it as hard as you like and it takes a lot to break them.

[prenna]

good solid system you might want to check out is Pencak Silat

I forgot to add Silat to my list of recommended arts

[Rochellita]

what about krav maga? How would you rate that as a self-defense system?

Rochelle