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The law!

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:24 pm
by Asleep on a sunbeam
I said something in a PM and I just want to check that I havne't mis-informaed someone.

Having a knife under your bed and using it against an intruder is illegal were as having it in a draw or wardrobe near your bed, and using it on an intruder isn't illegal, right?

Also if it's a "decorative" piece above your bed that you use, that's legal isn't it?

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:20 pm
by Gelert
Fucking hell.

I may be in the habit of saying guns for show, knives for a pro, but for fuck's sake I'm quoting Lock, Stock, which should explain it.

Unless you are the second coming of William Ewart Fairbairn, NEVER fight with a knife if you can remotely help it.

You will get cut, and particularly in the present media-political climate, you will get locked up for a long time.

If you have a weapon under a pillow, that demonstrates prior thought and malicious intent of kinds. That's the difference between manslaughter and murder.

If you have it in the bottom of your sock drawer, that you have had the opportunity to go for it suggests that you had the opportunity to make your escape and so forth.

If you have a decorative weapon above your bed, the chances are that common taste and aesthetics would dictate something like a katana. Firstly, buying them is very difficult these days due to a new law. Secondly, if you use a sword or similar - your attacker needs to be similarly armed for it to be reasonable force. Sword wielding attackers are fortunately in short supply. If you thus use a sword against someone with a penknife, you are, as Rumpole says, fucked.

To obtain legal protection you must as a basic

1. Be genuinely in fear for your life at the time
2. Use reasonable force

And even then, expect the cops, the CPS and the legal system to try and put you in jail.

Further reading

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/section5/chapter_d.html

Key bits:

Palmer v R

"A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large."

" If there has been an attack so that self defence is reasonably necessary, it will be recognised that a person defending himself cannot weigh to a nicety the exact measure of his defensive action. If the jury thought that that in a moment of unexpected anguish a person attacked had only done what he honestly and instinctively thought necessary, that would be the most potent evidence that only reasonable defensive action had been taken...".

http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/pros ... lders.html

(if) you knew of an intended intruder and set a trap to hurt or to kill them rather than involve the police,
....you would be acting with very excessive and gratuitous force and could be prosecuted.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:32 pm
by Catt Queen
I was going to finish the sentence with "is an ass" but it doesn't seem to fit.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:45 pm
by Gelert
It would.

There's currently a bloke about to start a prison sentence for going after a gang of twenty five youths who threatened his home. He went back in the house to pick up a BB gun and he went outside to wave it at them to scare them off

That he had been pelted with eggs and had a broken nose was no defence in the eyes of the law.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:09 pm
by Asleep on a sunbeam
The fact is I'm posting it here not to be an ass but double check it.

Being an ass would just be telling them that and leaving it at that.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:28 am
by The Duke
[quote="Gelert"]
If you have a weapon under a pillow, that demonstrates prior thought and malicious intent of kinds.


Demonstrates being a candidate for the nuthouse.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:45 am
by baldy
Back home in South Africa where the law is probably interpreted slightly differently. One of my Aikido buddies told me the story of waking up and hearing someone in his house. The guy telling the story was short guy about 5"5 or there about but black belt so rather lethal.
After hearing the noise he got out of bed picked up his Katana to go and investigate. The joke was that he did not sleep in PJs so walked into his kitchen naked with a Katana and caught this guy.
As we are trained to do in Aikido he approached the burglar and put the top of the katana under the chin of the burglar. After a few words the burglar fled and my buddy was pretty confident that he would not come back.

I always thought that was a great story. A bokken (wooden Katana) would probably have been just as effective.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:32 am
by Gelert
[quote="The Duke"][quote="Gelert"]
If you have a weapon under a pillow, that demonstrates prior thought and malicious intent of kinds.


Demonstrates being a candidate for the nuthouse.


It demonstrates being soft. Proper candidates for the nuthouse sleep with a pillow under their gun.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:29 am
by Catt Queen
[quote="Asleep on a sunbeam"]The fact is I'm posting it here not to be an ass but double check it.

Being an ass would just be telling them that and leaving it at that.


Not saying you're an ass, was completing the well known sentence of -

The law is an ass :D :D

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:09 pm
by ninearms
Triple D-cell Maglite FTW.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:35 pm
by Gelert
Needs more crenellated bezel.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:18 pm
by puppydog
[quote="Gelert"]Unless you are the second coming of William Ewart Fairbairn, NEVER fight with a knife if you can remotely help it.


Or this guy:

Image

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:29 pm
by Catt Queen
So basically get defences up so high that no one gets the opportunity to attack. Be proactive not reactive.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:40 pm
by Gelert
If there is a high risk, yes.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:23 pm
by sonnyd7
from the title i thought it was gonna be about matt 'the law' lindland, lol