Negative mindset when training self-defense

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Negative mindset when training self-defense

Postby SpugFab » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:30 pm

I feel a bit like I'm spamming up the woman's thread so I thought I'd move my question into a new one.

http://www.veganfitness.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15098&start=92

How do the martial artists on here deal with the effects of the negative thinking that go along with practicing their art?

If you take away the physical side for a minute: consider where devoting many hours a week to contemplating the worst that can happen will leave you.

How do you guys cope with that? Especially if you've been the victim of an attack and that has lead you to start training. Isn't that bound to compound your already distorted perception of the dangers around you?

If your coping mechanism has been increasing your skills and fitness levels (to battle against your ever expanding imagined threat of attack), how would you deal with losing them through injury, illness or old age?

I'm trying to promote my new theories on sunshine, happiness, badminton and relentless positivity as an alternative to conventional self defense :)

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Postby puppydog » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:44 pm

it's called REALITY, son.
thinking negative will make negative things happen??? Now you're talking some Oprah Hippie Fried Green Tomato shit....

ok, now for my real thoughts.....

i think it depends on what type of training you do. If you're practising int he context you described, yeah i think that can have a negative/depressing effect.

i was training gungfu with the idea that it was a process and that there was a high level of capability that i could achieve with practice and self control, but that it's the journey that's important. (how's that for hippy shit?)

i have the same thoughts about health in general - the more i learn about diet and nutrition, the more i realise there are so many things i can/should be doing and am not.

i guess you have to just look at the glass as half full - if "the worst" happens, you're going to be ready and kick some ass, and maybe stop that person from trying it again.
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Postby Crash » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:44 pm

I laugh alot at badminton players. :P

No one spends all their time thinking "oh my God, they're out to get me" unless they really are crazy. :roll: My self defense classes are not about concentrating on the worst of humanity, but knowing I can handle myself and being prepared. (Yes, it is all about me. :oops: )

I don't walk around looking over my shoulder, but I am aware of what's happening around me. Personally it helps my peace of mind to know that I can defend myself if someone does come for me and I can relax with that. Chances are no one will, but in my experience life is not all butterflies, badminton and boxing so it's better to be prepared. Training comes with the territory. Besides it's really fun to flip someone - especially badminton players. :wink:
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Postby The Duke » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:54 pm

When I was training every day and teaching four nights a week I found the world a violent place and had no problems finding violence and confrontation. It seemed to stalk me through the streets.

The day I stopped the violence and confrontation was left behind.

Over ten years since stopping full time training I have had a few confrontations and a couple of pushy pushies.

Now I still train - but alone. I'll sometimes take a personal student who seems genuinely interested in the arts I practice but I seperate them from the concept of self defence.

I honestly don't think there is such a thing as self defence - just fighting. Doesn't matter who instigates it, what you end up with is a fight.

I'm personally much happier and feel much safer since I walked away from it all!!

Having said that I miss the sparring (different from fighting) and the development of technical and physical skills. If I could find a school that was interested in teaching me a traditional art without all of the "on the cobbles" crap I might be tempted.

The irony is that I began training because of a genuine interest in the culture of eastern philosophy and ended up teaching people how to ram someone against a wall before headbutting them (but only if they looked at you funny like :wink: ).

I'll probably stick to practising Wing Chun in the garden and pressganging the occasional inocent into service as atrapping dummy.

Too many negative emotions come from training with people a little more than un poco loco. Can't be bothered. (although if Pendekar Paul de Thouars moved in next door ... ... ????)
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Postby XkillerX » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:55 pm

hippy-happy people piss me off.
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Postby SpugFab » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:19 pm

I think training martial arts because you are interested in them or for sporting reasons can obviously be a positive force (sporting reasons are the only reasons I've trained, whenever my Wing Chun instructor would dip into "now if someone attacks you" mode I'd switch off pretty quickly).

But for a self-defense focus the negative reinforcement of being told that people want to attack you so often must be difficult to deal with on a subconcious level. You might get an internal happy glow from thinking you can deal with things, but I'm talking about how that reinforcement will affect the way you deal with other people.

If you embrace Myers-Fu you will find that more people want to be around you. You will no longer be the loner walking down the dark alley on a hair-trigger. Witness how safe Mandela looks above.

And I'm not saying the world is all sweetness and light, but it seems to me that where I live at least it can come pretty close if I choose to let it. Sacrificing that for the illusion of control is a heavy price to pay.
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Postby Edison Carasio » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:40 pm

Some people live in places where they have no choice but to be aware of their surroundings, suspect the guy walking down the street at 2 am for no reason and know how to run from a junkie with a knife or a homeless man with a shiv. If you live in a suberb in a nice home with a nice job, then badmiton and your cell phone is all the self defense you need. If you live in an urban neighborhood or the center of a large city then you need a bit more than that, IMO. I live in a large city, and when I'm out at a coffee shop late at night doing homework, I get accosted by homeless people and drunks leaving the bar all the time. It only takes one crack rock, one needle or one too many beers to make them want to rob me or just plain fight. If I'm at the grocery store, I do not need to think this way. When I'm walking to my car every night I do. Simply thinking and being prepared is all I should need, but if I need a tech like a knife disarm, an groin/eye strike or some sort of joint lock to restrain, then I would like to know it.
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Postby SpugFab » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:53 pm

[quote="Edison Carasio"]Some people live in places where they have no choice but to be aware of their surroundings [snip]

Guys, this is what I'm talking about.

If you find yourself writing delusional "some day a real rain will come" rants on internet message boards then the negative mindset has taken over.

YOU NEED MYERS FU MORE THAN EVER.
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Postby benzilla » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:01 pm

[quote="spug_myers"]I think training martial arts because you are interested in them or for sporting reasons can obviously be a positive force (sporting reasons are the only reasons I've trained, whenever my Wing Chun instructor would dip into "now if someone attacks you" mode I'd switch off pretty quickly).

But for a self-defense focus the negative reinforcement of being told that people want to attack you so often must be difficult to deal with on a subconcious level. You might get an internal happy glow from thinking you can deal with things, but I'm talking about how that reinforcement will affect the way you deal with other people.

If you embrace Myers-Fu you will find that more people want to be around you. You will no longer be the loner walking down the dark alley on a hair-trigger. Witness how safe Mandela looks above.

And I'm not saying the world is all sweetness and light, but it seems to me that where I live at least it can come pretty close if I choose to let it. Sacrificing that for the illusion of control is a heavy price to pay.



this kind of argument seems to be the same as the abstinence stance on sex. Aren't those people more likely to get pregnant/std's as they are unprepared? I don't have articles/statistics to back this up though!
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Postby ninearms » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:11 pm

[quote="The Duke"]I honestly don't think there is such a thing as self defence - just fighting. Doesn't matter who instigates it, what you end up with is a fight.


We have a winner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Ycw0d_Uow
“Begin at the beginning,” the King said gravely, “and go on till you come to the end. Then stop.”
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Postby The Duke » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:19 pm



I think you just have sorted out my evening's entertainment.

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Postby ninearms » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:24 pm

"We are all ready to win, just as we are born knowing only life. It is defeat that you must learn to prepare for."
“Begin at the beginning,” the King said gravely, “and go on till you come to the end. Then stop.”
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Postby SpugFab » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:25 pm

His opponent looks like an extra from the Bill :?

One that failed his detective exam.
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Postby SpugFab » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:31 pm

[quote="benzilla"]this kind of argument seems to be the same as the abstinence stance on sex.

Well if you're planning to definitely have a fight then it would be wise to train for it.

But the basis of Myers Fu lies in the probability of getting in a fight being tiny (similar to the chance of actually having sex for IT workers), and the realisation that training in self defense only changes the probable outcome of said fight by a tiny amount (no matter how much the practitioners delude themselves).

Living a positive happy Myers-esque lifestyle actually decreases the initial probability of getting in a fight (surrounded by happy people, giving out positive vibes), meaning it is a more effective form of self defense than "self defense" is.

Plus you get to do fun stuff instead of attending nutter-led fear-driven self defense classes.
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Postby ninearms » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:41 pm

What he said.

Some more Enter The Dragon wisdom:

"Very few people can be totally ruthless. It isn't easy; it takes more strength than you might believe."

Who here would be prepared to deliver multiple knee drops to the head, given the chance?
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