I wish more women trained in MMA..flux wrote:I don't really have a strong preference.
XkillerX wrote: how about you?
i dont know if this is of any interest to you, but mma is quite a gladiator routine. if your goal is fun, fun, fun and grounding and pounding, it is #1.
for self defense boxing and thai boxing are more practical.
That's an inaccurate statement used by BJJ instructors to sell their product/big business.Crash wrote:Also, since most fights end up on the floor, jiu jitsu is the best for self defense imo.
tempehmomma wrote:That's an inaccurate statement used by BJJ instructors to sell their product/big business.Crash wrote:Also, since most fights end up on the floor, jiu jitsu is the best for self defense imo.
If you get knock to the ground in a street fight the first thing you should do is get off of the ground unless you want to get kicked in the head by the other persons friends or risk being pinned on the ground buy a bigger person.
Crash, show me research that proves most streetfights end up on the ground.
6. The report concluded: “Nearly two thirds of the 1988 altercations (62%) ended with the officer and subject on the ground with the officer applying a joint lock and handcuffing the subject.” Given this, it is better put that the LAPD data says when officers physically fought with suspects (versus simply encountering minor resistance or non-compliance which required a minor use of force, but did not escalate into an altercation), 95% of the time those fights took one of five patterns, and 62% of those five types of altercations ended up with the officer and subject on the ground with the officer locking and handcuffing the suspect.
After this report was published, LAPD instituted a program that included training in ground control skills, which in turn were based on modern judo and jujutsu grappling skills specially adapted for law enforcement.
Also, the statistics did not measure "fights" but officer use of force reports.
Additional information regarding civilian fights.
Male versus Male - Age 18 and up
In studying real life fights involving this group of civilians, we find that no more than 40% fights ever went to the ground.
The percentage is much higher with male versus female. Typically 80% or more. This is due to the nature of the attack. Men attack women for the purpose of control and exploitation, such as rape.
tempehmomma wrote:It is an interesting article, however I'm referring to "civilian street fights." When you used the word "fights" it was misleading. I don't get into "fights" with police officers.
In studying real life fights involving this group of civilians, we find that no more than 40% fights ever went to the ground. When the fights did go to the ground, it was typically due to two main reasons:
1. Ineffective technique that led to the combatants becoming fatigued and frustrated and proceeding to a grapple, and then to falling on the ground.
2. One of the combatants actually tripping and falling.
You only cite statistics from use of force by law enforcement officers not civilian versus civilian "fights." Do you know what percentage of ALL "fights" in the US are civilian versus civilian or police officer versus civilian. The Bureau of Justice Statistics website probably has those statistics, however it's impossible to get an accurate number because many civilian versus civilian "fights" are not reported to law enforcement. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/Crash wrote:But I did mean all fights. The criminals these police officers fought with are also civilians. These criminal civilians will also fight with other civilians - not only police officers, ergo these fights will go to the ground as well.
The opinion comes from the American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers not a TKD school. Information from BJJ practioners is suspect, misleading, and biased against other martial arts so I don't think that is a very good argument.Crash wrote:Also you didn't note that this information comes from a self defense school that teaches taekwondo and as such the information is clearly suspect and misleading as it is biased against another martial art.
Regardless, the 40% in the taekwondo school's opinion....
I don't understand why you shared that experience. Do most civilian "fights" involve multiple attackers? Your personal experience is not enough data to come to a scientific conclusion that most civilian street "fights" involve multiple attackers or end up on the ground.Crash wrote:Per my personal experience I have been unlucky enough to witness a beating of one man by a group of thugs - the lone guy put up a fight and it ended up on the ground - they had to be pulled apart by police officers. I stand by my recommendation.
tempehmomma wrote: You only cite statistics from use of force by law enforcement officers not civilian versus civilian "fights." Do you know what percentage of ALL "fights" in the US are civilian versus civilian or police officer versus civilian. The Bureau of Justice Statistics website probably has those statistics, however it's impossible to get an accurate number because many civilian versus civilian "fights" are not reported to law enforcement. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/
Exhibit 1: Type and Frequency of Violence in Incidents Among Selected
Public School Students
Number of Incidents* Percentage of All
Threw something 14%
Pushed, grabbed, shoved 55%
Kicked/bit/hit with fist 67%
Hit with something 14%
Beat up 21%
Threatened with gun 10%
Threatened with knife 8%
Used knife 2%
Used gun 5%
Note: Percentages do not equal 100% because there were multiple responses.
* Incidents in which behavior occurred at least once.
Fighting Myths - notes from the American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers Conference
One of the myths about personal protection is the old misquoted statistic, "90% of all fights wind up on the ground." This statistic has been used to sell ground fighting systems as the ultimate in self defense. If you have been in the martial arts or personal protection game long enough you have certainly heard this thing tossed around. You may have even heard the source - "according to the LAPD".
That statistic is wrong, AND misused.
The ASLET conference featured training in joint lock takedowns with retired sergeant John L. Sommers, the very man who conducted the use of force study with the LAPD and designed their defensive tactics program. His study looked at 6000 use of force reports from the LAPD and found that 60% of the time the arresting officer was knocked to the ground. One of the major reasons for this is that California has the 3 strikes rule and recidivist criminals are more likely to fight back to try to get away. Here are some of the main problems with the way this statistic is misused:
1. The percentage is 60% not 90% the numbers are frequently inflated to seem more convincing. While 60% is a majority, that means that more than one third of incidents did not result in an officer being knocked down.
tempehmomma wrote:The best martial art against multiple attackers is running.
tempehmomma wrote: I have a steel pipe for extreme circumstances. It took me 15 seconds to analyze, research, and train. Hit hard and fast! Oh wait, what if the attacker grabs the pipe from me? Now I need to purchase a side arm.
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