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Fungability and palm oil

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:02 pm
by jamesndawson
What's your opinion on the ethics of buying products containing palm oil.
Is the argument against buying palm oil based on "fungability" sound? I've listened to Unnatural Vegan's video and it's still very vague to me, but I don't have a head for these types of things.
Has her and similar arguments been critiqued on a technical level be vegans versed in economics?
I'm trying to avoid palm oil, but it's in my Silk creamer, and I'm not strong enough to give that up. I've got to have it in my coffee. Other brands are too expensive and don't seem to taste quite as good.

Re: Fungability and palm oil

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:44 pm
by jamesndawson
Unnatural Vegan supposedly demolished the claim of sustainable palm oil and her coup de grace was the "fungibility" argument. I'll admit, that argument for me was very murky---I don't have a head for these things---so I neither accept nor refute this argument. But I'll attempt a question.

Is humane/sustainable/whatever palm oil really "fungible" (i.e. "interchangeable economically) with exploitative/amoral palm oil? How do we know that whoever it is who counts palm oil consumption and makes financial decisions on it, ignores the difference between humane/sustainable and exploitative? Where's the evidence that they do this? Is mock/vegan meat fungible with animal meat? Why or why not? If I buy mock meat do I drive up the demand for animal meat, because Bud Carnivore doesn't care about the difference? (Meat is meat is meat.) Are these analogies valid? (Again, I'm murky on this, so maybe they aren't).

Coffee with creamer has long been a very comforting ritual for me and while I did use Mocha Mix for a while---it's pretty unpalatable---until Silk came along, casein creamer was my last main sticking point for going vegan. Silk creamer contains palm oil, and it's just something I can't give up. (No, the alternatives aren't nearly as good and they cost too much.) Although I've tried limiting my palm oil, I can't give up my Silk. If all palm oil really is cruel and unethical, I'm resigned for now being a terrible vegan, and person.

[This was my comment on Vegan Zombie's YouTube video, "Is Palm Oil Vegan".]

Re: Fungability and palm oil

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:58 pm
by beforewisdom
Harvesting palm oil results in killing orangutans.

That is exactly the kind of reason vegans abstain from animal products.

I used to do on the street activism trying to convince people to go vegan.

It deeply saddens me that every time I talk to vegans about palm oil I hear the same kind of lame half logic that meat eaters used on me to tell me why they didn't want to eat meat.

It kills animals people. If you don't care about that, you aren't a vegan, you are just a person who eats a plant based diet.