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'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

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'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

Postby muchluv » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:13 pm

Not my words

Someone has been showing me Ron Paul stuff recently. He has a very interesting and different view from what I am used to over here in England.

I am a socialist at heart, I think. But Ron Paul (I think) did make a very interesting point about taxes, and saying that they imply the right to someone else's money. Thought this was a strong point as taxes are basically legalised stealing. Does anyone have a counter-argument they would use against such a statement?
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Re: 'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

Postby beforewisdom » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:42 pm

[quote="muchluv"]Not my words

Someone has been showing me Ron Paul stuff recently. He has a very interesting and different view from what I am used to over here in England.

I am a socialist at heart, I think. But Ron Paul (I think) did make a very interesting point about taxes, and saying that they imply the right to someone else's money. Thought this was a strong point as taxes are basically legalised stealing. Does anyone have a counter-argument they would use against such a statement?


Do you like all the things that a society uses, in common
- roads,
- a military
- schools
- libraries
etc ?

Somebody has to pay for all of those things. Since those things are used in common, everybody should chip in their "fair" ( see philosophical debates about "regressive" versus "progressive" taxes ) share to pay for them. Those who don't are freeloaders.
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Re: 'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

Postby muchluv » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:00 pm

I think the people who are making this statement will typically be people who have money for private healthcare, schooling, and whatever else. Fair point about the road and military etc.

Ron Paul says the government should provide a military for defense, a court system for civil desputes, a criminal justice system, and not much else, so his view would, I guess, be against public libraries and schools. Obviously we can see the big problems with that, but again like I said, if that person were to argue their money shouldn't be taken as taxes, what is the counter?
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Re: 'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

Postby baldy » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:13 pm

I would argue it from a democracy side, the people elected the government, which in turn set the tax. If you don't like the tax you should change it via the government.
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Re: 'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

Postby Speciell » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:24 pm

[quote="muchluv"]I think the people who are making this statement will typically be people who have money for private healthcare, schooling, and whatever else. Fair point about the road and military etc.

Ron Paul says the government should provide a military for defense, a court system for civil desputes, a criminal justice system, and not much else, so his view would, I guess, be against public libraries and schools. Obviously we can see the big problems with that, but again like I said, if that person were to argue their money shouldn't be taken as taxes, what is the counter?


To not oversimplify complicated systems or agree on that capitalism must be the starting point for discussion. With that said, I wouldn't really bother.
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Re: 'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

Postby Hiking Fox » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:48 pm

[quote="muchluv"]Ron Paul says the government should provide a military for defense, a court system for civil desputes, a criminal justice system, and not much else, so his view would, I guess, be against public libraries and schools.


Sounds like the kind of raving right-winger that I find too draining to argue with, these days.
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Re: 'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

Postby tal » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:00 pm

Libertarians would happily dispose of the government and allow corporations to manage all areas of society.
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Re: 'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

Postby tal » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:03 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso[/youtube]
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Re: 'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

Postby fredrikw » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:11 pm

Who's money is it really?
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Re: 'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

Postby ninearms » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:24 pm

[quote="fredrikw"]Who's money is it really?


It's all mine. Give it back, you lot!
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Re: 'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

Postby tal » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:31 pm

[quote="muchluv"]Someone has been showing me Ron Paul stuff recently. He has a very interesting and different view from what I am used to over here in England.


He's a nationalist, anti-choice, against all forms of immigration and against a welfare system.

There are quite a few of those in England. Pretty sure they read the daily mail.
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Re: 'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

Postby Fallen_Horse » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:08 am

The real problem with the tax system and something that I agree with Ron Paul on is that no one gets to vote on where their taxes go, politicians decide where the taxes go and people only vote for the politicians. I pay 30% of my income in taxes and I don't get to pick where a dime of that goes. In fact, half of my money goes to defense spending which I find abhorrent. I believe people should be able to vote where there tax dollars go.
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Re: 'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

Postby beforewisdom » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:30 am

True. I'm not worried about it though. I don't think it is realistic to have every penny in taxes you pay go to something you feel 100% good about. There will be things that you feel super strong about that you can fight by getting and staying involved in politics. "You" meaning any American.

Living in a society or with any group of people means you are going to have to give up something and live with something that isn't perfect to get the benefits of living in a group. Then again, living 100% alone completely independent of a group, even if it was still possible was also far from perfect. One of the reasons why people formed groups and then society.

The people who don't want to pay any taxes and have zero restrictions on THEIR freedom are just not being realistic, intellectually honest or fair.

No disrespect to anyone.
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Re: 'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

Postby JP » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:35 am

[quote="muchluv"]Not my words

Someone has been showing me Ron Paul stuff recently. He has a very interesting and different view from what I am used to over here in England.

I am a socialist at heart, I think. But Ron Paul (I think) did make a very interesting point about taxes, and saying that they imply the right to someone else's money. Thought this was a strong point as taxes are basically legalised stealing. Does anyone have a counter-argument they would use against such a statement?


how irritating that same guy has made his fortunes by stealing other peoples money from the value of their labour!

no taxes in a free socialist economy though, but cant see him wanting that kind of equality :)
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Re: 'Taxes assume the right to someone else's money'

Postby xrodolfox » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:53 pm

I am no fan of the state, but I'm also not a fan of freeloading libertarians who make arguments against taking responsibility.
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