Porn = not vegan

Armchair politics, ethical soapbox and current affairs. Place to discuss vegan ethics and general ethics and politics. Be nice.

Moderators: hardcore iv, fredrikw, JP, stateofflux, bronco

Porn = not vegan

Postby helmut » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:12 am

http://www.thepinkcross.org/pinkcross-articles/june-2009/porn-stars-speak-out-stds-drugs-and-abuse

i saw this article when a friend had posted it on facebook... granted the 'pink cross' has a religious agenda but i just think the stories speak for themselves.. absolutely heartbreaking. majority of people in the sex industry are driven there out of sheer desperation and i just think that the abuse that goes on is horrific. i wonder how many consumers of this industry consider such factors?

http://www.aegis.com/news/Lt/2003/LT030110.html

the unregulated nature of the industry in california...
Last edited by helmut on Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
*take me to the mediocrity dungeon*
User avatar
helmut
Active Member
 
Posts: 1153
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:20 am
Location: Australia

Postby Dave Noisy » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:08 pm

Aye, it's pretty awful. Saw a documentary a few weeks ago, i believe from the BBC, on porn, and how much $$ gets invested in it from surprising sources, such as various retirement funds.

These are invested in places that prop up the porn industry, specifically targeted was various big hotel chains, that of course provide porn on pay-per-view...which in turn they profit from, and of course continues the demand for the industry.

Of course, people in the pornography industry itself were interviewed, and no one seemed particularly empowered, or even really wanting to be in it..

What was also disturbing is that a few years ago there was an AIDS scare, and condoms were supposedly made mandatory...yet they're apparently no more common in the films today.

Porn 'actors' get a check-up once a month, that's about it... Very scary industry.
User avatar
Dave Noisy
Active Member
 
Posts: 6767
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Postby emm7 » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:58 pm

Just want to say I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments expressed in the Original Post.
Very interesting book on related issues is "The sexual politics of meat" by Carol J. Adams

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Awrw ... q=&f=false

She believes that veganism (challenging the objectivisation of animals) also implicitly challenges the objectivisation of humans.
Well worth reading.
"she was my better half and I was just a dog"
"I don't have a drinking problem except when I can't get a drink"
"No, the moon ain't romantic, it's intimidating as hell
And some guy's trying to sell me a watch"
-- Tom Waits Bad Liver and a Broken Heart
User avatar
emm7
Active Member
 
Posts: 6118
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:20 pm
Location: South Coast, United Kingdom

Postby XkillerX » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:01 pm

In that case could somebody make me a list of R rated films involving actors who are in it because that's what they like to do for a living and don't feel in any way repressed, exploited or ashamed of their job?
Activists are the engineers of the soul. That's why governments lock them up.
User avatar
XkillerX
invisible blonde unicorn
 
Posts: 4272
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:20 pm
Location: toxic city, yugoslavia (or what's left of it...)

Postby JP » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:03 pm

finnish porn actress Rakel Liekki is vegan and has spoken about animal rights in interviews.

not directly related to the original topic, but anyway!
User avatar
JP
Site Admin
 
Posts: 19245
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:14 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Postby XkillerX » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:47 pm

Fantasic!!! rapidlinks, ed2k links etc PM please! :wink:
Activists are the engineers of the soul. That's why governments lock them up.
User avatar
XkillerX
invisible blonde unicorn
 
Posts: 4272
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:20 pm
Location: toxic city, yugoslavia (or what's left of it...)

Postby pimmando k. » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:07 pm

is this vegan?

http://www.vegporn.com
User avatar
pimmando k.
Active Member
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 8:47 pm
Location: Finland

Postby Johnboy74 » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:24 pm

Porn = not vegan = Absurd
****** Vegan Atheist ******
Most atheists see themselves as realists - their atheism is a part of their willingness to square up to the world as it is and face it without recourse to superstition or comforting fictions about a life to come or a benevolent power looking after us.
User avatar
Johnboy74
Active Member
 
Posts: 2543
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:00 pm
Location: Liverpool

Postby helmut » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:15 am

is it vegan if it exploits people?
*take me to the mediocrity dungeon*
User avatar
helmut
Active Member
 
Posts: 1153
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:20 am
Location: Australia

Postby JP » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:56 am

[quote="helmut"]is it vegan if it exploits people?


has to be, otherwise nothing in capitalist economy would be vegan.
User avatar
JP
Site Admin
 
Posts: 19245
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:14 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Postby Linnéa76 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:46 am

Phrases like ”free will” and ”consenting adults” often come up in this discussion. But where do we draw the line? Does a drug addict have free will? Can someone with a severe personality disorder give consent? Or someone who had their integrity and self-esteem crushed by repeated sexual abuse while growing up? What about 18 year olds, can they fully appreciate the consequences participating in porn movies will have on their lives?

Also, to be honest, isn’t degradation sort of the point of porn? The contents of the hetero porn I’ve encountered and the fact that the female participants always are referred to as “sluts” makes it hard not to conclude that people get off to humiliation. Obviously, there’s a huge variation, but the mainstream porn that you can come across without even searching for it is very rough in my eyes.

I guess porn reflects people’s fantasies but I also think it affects their views on sex, especially when young people watch a lot of it. I think it makes guys feel inadequate size-wise and I think it inspires them to make certain demands on their partners. It’s heartbreaking to read letters to sex columns by young girls, describing how they’re made to do things that are painful or make them gag, asking for advice on how to make it more bearable.

I don’t have any moral objections to the concept of porn and I’m sure there are films out there that don’t make you feel like you’re watching rape or prostitution. Still… how would you feel if your daughter became a porn actress?
User avatar
Linnéa76
Moderator
 
Posts: 1887
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:34 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Postby Johnboy74 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:01 am

[quote="Linnéa76"]Phrases like ”free will” and ”consenting adults” often come up in this discussion. But where do we draw the line? Does a drug addict have free will? Can someone with a severe personality disorder give consent? Or someone who had their integrity and self-esteem crushed by repeated sexual abuse while growing up? What about 18 year olds, can they fully appreciate the consequences participating in porn movies will have on their lives?

Also, to be honest, isn’t degradation sort of the point of porn? The contents of the hetero porn I’ve encountered and the fact that the female participants always are referred to as “sluts” makes it hard not to conclude that people get off to humiliation. Obviously, there’s a huge variation, but the mainstream porn that you can come across without even searching for it is very rough in my eyes.

I guess porn reflects people’s fantasies but I also think it affects their views on sex, especially when young people watch a lot of it. I think it makes guys feel inadequate size-wise and I think it inspires them to make certain demands on their partners. It’s heartbreaking to read letters to sex columns by young girls, describing how they’re made to do things that are painful or make them gag, asking for advice on how to make it more bearable.

I don’t have any moral objections to the concept of porn and I’m sure there are films out there that don’t make you feel like you’re watching rape or prostitution. Still… how would you feel if your daughter became a porn actress?


I agree with the age thing, 21 should be the youngest age to be considered for porn. The problem with porn is there is a demand for it, where there is a demand there is money to be made, hey ho capitalism. But people choose to be in porn (hetro and gay porn) men and women choose to star in porn to make money fast which is there decision. It's not sex slavery, it's greedy capitalism at work. I don't accept the logic that some people don't have a choice but to work in porn. It's just selfish capitalist greed, they want to make money fast and lots of it. This may have long term psychological impacts and then again it may not. Some people enter porn as very fucked up people in the first place and will do anything in porn to make money. WHich feeds the weirdos desires for extreme porn, the desire is there and it seems people are prepared to do it. Not saying it's right but then again capitalism isn't either. But the porn = Not vegan is a joke, I thought this was a crank thread at first but obviously not :shock:
****** Vegan Atheist ******
Most atheists see themselves as realists - their atheism is a part of their willingness to square up to the world as it is and face it without recourse to superstition or comforting fictions about a life to come or a benevolent power looking after us.
User avatar
Johnboy74
Active Member
 
Posts: 2543
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:00 pm
Location: Liverpool

Postby beforewisdom » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:46 pm

[quote="JP"]finnish porn actress Rakel Liekki is vegan and has spoken about animal rights in interviews.

not directly related to the original topic, but anyway!


Interesting!
beforewisdom
Active Member
 
Posts: 1602
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:33 am
Top

Postby helmut » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:21 pm

[quote="Johnboy74"]

I agree with the age thing, 21 should be the youngest age to be considered for porn.


many 21 year olds are still just as impressionable and immature though as they were at 18

[quote="Johnboy74"]
The problem with porn is there is a demand for it, where there is a demand there is money to be made, hey ho capitalism. But people choose to be in porn (hetro and gay porn) men and women choose to star in porn to make money fast which is there decision. It's not sex slavery, it's greedy capitalism at work. I don't accept the logic that some people don't have a choice but to work in porn. It's just selfish capitalist greed, they want to make money fast and lots of it. This may have long term psychological impacts and then again it may not. Some people enter porn as very fucked up people in the first place and will do anything in porn to make money. WHich feeds the weirdos desires for extreme porn, the desire is there and it seems people are prepared to do it. Not saying it's right but then again capitalism isn't either.


the issue here is that many people who enter the porn industry do so out of desperation. do you think many people enter the sex industry out of mere curiousity? or the desire to 'get rich quick' (in which case the financial problem can often be drug related)?. according to the anecdotal evidence in the above link, drug addiction is very common in the porn industry. are they in the porn industry because they are addicted to drugs or are they addicted to drugs because they are in the porn industry? it's a sad state of affairs and i think it's silly that you write off people as selfish greedy capitalists. i'm not sure you can say it's not sex slavery when there are stories of the intimidation and harassment the actors face on set (particularly the women)- being pressured into things they don't want to do, or hurt physically by another actor who takes things too far.

and what exactly can you call 'weird' porn anyway? where do you draw the line? BDSM? outright violence? gang banging? rape simulation? snuff films?

[quote="Johnboy74"]
But the porn = Not vegan is a joke, I thought this was a crank thread at first but obviously not :shock:


well you can draw parallels between the way animals are treated and the way people objectify porn actors. one of the things that bothers me the most is the unregulated state of the industry- did you read the second link? or the first one, for that matter? the second one reveals the recent outbreak of HIV in the industry... and how no one cares, no government body will step in and enforce some regulation to make condoms mandatory, to bring in workers rights, anything. because people don't care, people don't respect porn actors as human beings.

and the title i just meant to be thought provoking, but knowing what a screwed up industry it is, wouldn't you not want to support it?
*take me to the mediocrity dungeon*
User avatar
helmut
Active Member
 
Posts: 1153
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:20 am
Location: Australia
Top

Postby XkillerX » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:37 pm

Seriously though, maybe it's time to start a proper Vegan Pr0n Society and have people who want to do it make ethically acceptable adult films.

I'm not sure that people who don't watch these films understand that this is not as easy as with food or clothes. There's this shit chip built in into most people's heads that reacts to voyeurism. Especially if it's socially acceptable voyeurism.
Activists are the engineers of the soul. That's why governments lock them up.
User avatar
XkillerX
invisible blonde unicorn
 
Posts: 4272
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:20 pm
Location: toxic city, yugoslavia (or what's left of it...)

Next

Return to Ethics, Politics and Current Affairs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest